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NRA-ILA letter... reprehensible!

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by azredhawk44, May 23, 2007.

  1. JeffKnox

    JeffKnox New Member

    Jan 17, 2005
    Manassas, VA
    NRA, CATO, and accountability

    For the record: No relation to Buzz_Knox, but I am the son of former NRA 1stVP Neal Knox.

    First: Parker was NOT a CATO project! A lawyer who is affiliated with CATO did this on his own; CATO did not fund or support the case in any way.

    Second: NRA fundraising tactics have been a bone of contention with many members for a lot of years; this was a major part of the blow-up between my father and Wayne a few years back. The only way to cure it is to refuse to respond.

    Third: NRA is not evil compromisers trying to sell-out gun owners any more than GOA, JPFO, SAF, or the Firearms Coalition are greedy nay-sayers simply trying to make a buck off of bashing NRA. There is clearly some greed factor involved in much of what comes out of some of these groups, but beyond the greed, there is a deeply held belief in the RKBA - I personally know almost every major player in the fight and there is not one of them that I think is just in it for the money or power.

    Lastly: The only way to assure that the group you support is doing what you want is to be active in the group. Naturally, I endorse the model of involvement with local and state grassroots organizations that believe and behave as you want. When those organizations band together in a coalition (such as The Firearms Coalition for instance) they can bring a unified voice with tremendous power to the debate.

    NRA shouldn't raise funds on an issue they opposed. GOA shouldn't make mountains from mole-hills to stir up trouble and raise money. And activists should focus more on local politics and local organizations to get the job done right - and by definition, an activist must be active; writing a check now and then is good, but it can't replace active involvement.

    GunVoters Unite!
  2. Matt King

    Matt King Participating Member

    Apr 17, 2006
    Why should CATO have to get the NRA's permission to go forward with this?
  3. precisionshootist

    precisionshootist New Member

    Apr 12, 2007

    Ok, so maybe technically Parker was not a CATO sponsored case but can you explain the NRA's desire to derail it? The only argument I hear from the NRA against pushing a 2nd amendment case to SCOTUS is that we could lose. The fact is if we don't get the Supreme Court to affirm the 2nd as an individual right we have already lost! The so called rights that we are taking a chance with in a SCOTUS challenge are legislatively frozen in time. Just think if we would have settled for no more gun control in the days of muzzle loaders. Do you really think we would have effective means of defense against tyranny with muzzle loaders? We must overturn any and all means for the government to regulate the RKBA as stated in the constitution. Even if we are successful in stopping any additional gun control we have lost. It's only a matter of time.
  4. thereisnospoon

    thereisnospoon Active Member

    Jan 27, 2005
    At my house
    Jeff Knox,

    Great post. While I didn't know your father personally, I miss his writings and his presence in the fight to K&BA.
  5. ED21

    ED21 New Member

    Apr 23, 2007
    Thank you to MikeHaas and Jeff Knox for saying what so many of us lack the true ability to put so eloquently.
  6. SoCalShooter

    SoCalShooter Senior Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    That's for me to know and not you!
    I support GOA, NRA and JFPO and I still write letters and make some phone calls.
  7. Johannes_Paulsen

    Johannes_Paulsen Member

    May 18, 2007
    The answer is simple: you don't have to stop donating to the NRA, but seriously think about donating to Cato.

    Tom Palmer, Vice President at Cato for International Programs, is in fact one of the Parker plaintiffs.

    They are a good organization and are without question the most principled pro-liberty think tank and/or lobbying organization inside the beltway. They are a worthy organization to support for those who support the right to keep and bear arms.
  8. scout26

    scout26 Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2003
    Illinois - The Deadbeat State
    I'm sick and tired of the NRA bashing. No, they're not prefect, but they're a lot more effective then what's in second place.

    IIRC, the reason the NRA did not initially support Parker was because at that time (around 2002-2003) they didn't think we could win at the Supreme Court level. Remember this is 4-5 years ago. They could see who was on the court and count noses/votes. Remember this was the Rehnquist court, with Sandra Day O'Conner as an associate justice. If everyone is nervous now about Parker with Roberts and Alito on-board, think how you feel if they weren't there. That's why the NRA didn't support it, not because they felt that the "gravy train" would end if they got a favorable ruling, the fact was they didn't (and I also don't) think we got have gotten a favorable ruling out of the Rehnquist court. Plus does anyone here seriously think that if we win Parker, that there will be no more attempts by the gun control crowd to push for more gun control legislation. It'll be they're new rallying cry for their fund-raising. Plus, us winning Parker will require more from us and the NRA to rollback the current gun control laws on the books (like New York's and Chicago's), all of which will mean more work (and more fund raising) for the NRA. Win ro lose on Parker, we'll still have a fight on our hands with the anti's and the NRA is our (only) 800 lb gorilla in the upcoming fight.

    I'd like to believe that Wayne et al. would like nothing more then for the NRA to become a purely educational and training organization as originally founded. I'd still be a member and donate to the NRA. Now how could this happen??? Because the USSC will say in Parker: "It's an Individual Right, and all gun control laws, bans, registrations, etc. are null and void now and forever, and don't even try to make new ones, 'cause their null and void too. That's goes for the Federal, State and local levels."

    One final note. Whenever someone says "The NRA should do blah, blah, blah." I ask if they're a member. If yes, then I tell them "Remember those 'I'm the NRA' ads from a few years back ??? You're the NRA, not Wayne or Charlton or the Nuge, YOU. And if you think it's a great idea, then you make it happen." If they're not a member I tell them to join and then work to make it happen.

    Stepping down from my soapbox.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2007
  9. Ranger 40

    Ranger 40 member

    Dec 1, 2006
    Where was CATO when Clinton pushed thru his A-Ban Rifle Bill? Where was CATO when we were working the states to get the CCW Bills passed? What we have here is a bunch of lazy gun owners who have never went out and fought for rights.
    If you had been there, you would know it takes lots a money. the other thing you would know its only the NRA who shows up for the fight.:fire:

    Endowment Menber
  10. JohnRov

    JohnRov New Member

    Jan 2, 2003
    Probably the same place they were for this case, completely uninvolved. This case was funded by Robert Levy, who happens to be a senior fellow at the CATO Inst. He picked this case VERY, VERY carefully for a number of reasons.

  11. ilbob

    ilbob Elder

    Jun 14, 2006
    There are a fair number of very vocal people who post here who believe there is only one way to win and that is their way.

    Personally, I think we have to band together at the local level and start getting things done there. There is a saying that all politics is local. It is at least partially true. Politicians almost never run for high office first. they usually have to start at the bottom and work their way up.If better people are at the bottom of the food chain, it will eventually filter up to the top.

    There are a LOT of spots on school boards, city councils, sewer boards, etc. where you can make a difference. You might not win every fight, might lose them all in fact, but you won't win if you aren't in the game.

    Its may be even more important to get involved in local party affairs. Does not matter which party you are in. Your chances of being heard increase exponentially the more you are around.

    Just calling or writing to a politician once in a while makes a big difference. They really want to hear from you, even if they don't agree with you. It some kind of ego thing they have going.
  12. precisionshootist

    precisionshootist New Member

    Apr 12, 2007

    I agree with you that Grassroots activism is an effective tool at stopping the further erosion of our current and now very limited rights. What is needed most however is “advancement” of 2nd amendment rights. We must roll back all federal gun control laws and once again allow the citizens of the United States to possess current and future military weapons as stated in the constitution. The NRA in my opinion is still trying to produce a political solution to what in reality is a legal problem. The federal government has passed laws that are illegal, period. I’m not bashing the NRA. They have gotten us this far and we should dance with the ones that brought us but it’s time to get aggressive. It’s time to lawyer up and take our case to the courts and demand our rights be affirmed. If we lose we stir the pot some more and keep going back until we win. Better to go to the courts and lose now then to wait 10, 15 or more years when fewer and fewer people are involved in shooting or for that matter understand that we need to be armed to keep the government in check.
  13. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Member

    Jul 6, 2006
    Washington state
    Well, that's not quite accurate.

    Currently, without general acknowledgement, the Second Amendment Foundation is a plaintiff in the New Orleans and San Francisco lawsuits (SAF won an earlier lawsuit against San Francisco's first gun ban under then-Mayor Dianne Feinstein).

    SAF on its own is involved in gun rights lawsuits currently in Ohio and Texas, and is suing a library system in Washington state over blocked computer access to gun-related websites.

    The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms was deeply involved in the 1997 fight to defeat Initiative 676 in Washington state, which would have been the most draconian handgun law in the country. At the time, I was on the NRA BoD and as a lifelong Washington resident, I was involved in that campaign up to my ears. Several groups were involved in that one.

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