1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by freedom_fighter777, Jul 10, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. freedom_fighter777

    freedom_fighter777 New Member

  2. whatever

    whatever Well-Known Member

    It seems like you were out looking for to cause a scene...why?
  3. lobo9er

    lobo9er Well-Known Member

    Well I dunno. I would say it looks like you're just trying to make a point. I try to avoid hassles, but more power to ya.

    Honestly more people should start "undemonizing" guns.

    THE MACHINIST Well-Known Member

    Hell yeah, it's your right, there are more armed citizens than police, so be proud that you stood up instead of being job scared, fear of being arrested, etc........ Always fight for your rights.and know your laws to the letter. Police only enforce, not make laws. It was kool you had the camera there though, cause they might have fabricated a story.
  5. meef

    meef Well-Known Member

    It's generally been my experience that if you go looking for trouble, you will usually find it.

  6. lobo9er

    lobo9er Well-Known Member

    i usually dont even have to look i'm one of the lucky ones
  7. atomd

    atomd Well-Known Member

    It's funny how following the law 100% suddenly becomes "looking for trouble" when it's something you wouldn't do yourself.

    This reminds me of those who said that certain rape victims had it coming because they "dressed too sexy" or other idiotic arguments like that. The law is the law period..end of story. It is black and white...cut and dry..however else you want to describe it. Your opinion is worth exactly nothing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
  8. nc76

    nc76 Well-Known Member

    your video doesn't work. Only sound and black. No video.

    Why did you stop it at 8:12 and not let us hear the whole thing?
  9. 2RCO

    2RCO Well-Known Member

    Mr. Ponikvar--next time take a couple friends and have them film otherwise your video probably wouldn't be alot of help in your defense because the argument could always be made something was going on that couldn't be heard.

    Just be careful and don't be stupid. I know OC is legal and am all for it. It certainly looks like you were expecting a confrontation and you got it. The big question here is did they really get a concerned citizen call?

    Are you taking this to court?
  10. While this doesn't strictly fall under the topics appropriate for the Activism section, I think it merits discussion as a RKBA advocacy technique.

    I can appreciate the sentiment of the video and applaud someone actually going out and doing something rather than just grousing about it on the internet, however, the subject in the video pretty much undoes any potential positive actions by being beligerent and throwing around the "nazi Germany" nonsense. In the end, it was a net loss for the RKBA because perception is everything and the subject in the video failed in the regard.
  11. 2RCO

    2RCO Well-Known Member

    Glad you said it Jorg--I didn't want to start the thread into lockdown mode.
  12. t_durden

    t_durden Member

    yes, go after the law enforcers, good idea. everyone knows how much control they have over the law and over societies hoplophobia. OC being legal or not, you know your going to run into some kind of trouble and you were clearly looking for it. going out and about your day lawfully carry open is different than going out looking for trouble.
    in conclusion, thanks, but no thanks.
  13. AWorthyOpponent

    AWorthyOpponent Well-Known Member

    LOL, why would you go looking for trouble? I mean, don't get me wrong, you shouldn't have been stopped for the weapon if it is legal. You obviously knew that you "disturbed the peace" if the first thing you did was grab your camera. IDK...I don't buy this 100%

    At least you just happened to be carrying all the documentation showing that you were at least partially right when the officer arrived.

    IF all you were doing was open carrying, Thank You for exposing what really happened. But if you were just looking for a confrontation, as I think you were, sell your guns and move somewhere that you don't have to give the rest of us a bad name...we have enough issues to deal with trying to get others to accept the presence of firearms in their daily lives, let alone some know-it-all, negatively exploiting our rights.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  14. atomd

    atomd Well-Known Member

    I don't think there's any law against being belligerent or saying stupid things. I don't think there's a "win or lose" here...there's a right and wrong. The police were obviously WAY in the wrong. He could have been in a Nazi uniform waving a rebel flag while smoking a cigar and dancing a jig.....none of that matters one bit. He should have been treated the exact same way no matter what. The police aren't hired to tell us what is cool and what isn't or how nice we should be. They are hired to enforce laws.

    While I wish he had worded some things differently, I don't think he had the chance to express much before a gun was pointed at him. Anything else is insignificant.
  15. atomd

    atomd Well-Known Member

    How exactly is walking down the street not going about one's day? How exactly is walking down the street "looking for trouble". Please explain.
  16. Yet it can be even more damaging than breaking the law.

    Like I said, perception is everything. In the end, how he presents himself when pulling this little stunt is ALL that matters. Everything else will be forgotten.
  17. Rockwell1

    Rockwell1 member

    Arguing with the police never goes well. No matter how well you present your argument the police will take it as an afront to their authority.

    I'd ask if I was being detained,
    I might ask why, and then I'd ask to speak to a lawyer and shut up.

    The second or third time the city got sued they'd probably stop.
  18. Lou McGopher

    Lou McGopher Well-Known Member

    I think it was unnecessary for him to reference Nazi Germany in the video. The cops messing with you aren't going to care. They're not going to consider, "Hey, he's right. I am acting contrary to the principles of liberty. My treatment of this citizen is unjust and immoral." Anyone wanting to OC needs to remember that. Most cops aren't likely to care. They've got a job to do - a paycheck to collect. Be cordial and straightforward, and hope they act cordially and professionally. Save the analogies and philosophical grandstanding for later when you can be a little more articulate.

    Now then, I'm thinking of OC'ing in this same area very soon, as it is very near me. The police need to get used to it. I've got video cameras and voice recorders. I would preferably like to enlist someone else to handle the videotaping. Awfully silly that such a thing would be necessary, but in Cleveland Hts, a confrontation with the police is pretty much a given. There are a lot of them, and they seem to have pretty fast response times, and people around here just aren't used to the idea of honest citizens being armed. Recording while OC'ing in this area may be necessary at first.
  19. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Well-Known Member

    Not only are they not going to care, they're going to start thinking "this guy is out of control", which will give them all the more reason to detain you.

    If you carry a gun, especially openly, you need to expect that at some point, you might get hassled because of it.

    The real test is how well you keep your cool. I agree with Jorg and the rest - this particular incident ended up being 100% the opposite of how a proper open-carry awareness demonstration should have gone.
  20. bkjeffrey

    bkjeffrey Well-Known Member

    Good for you freedom fighter! Does anyone remember the Boston Tea Party? Our constitution was written by men who challenged the corrupt governments who persecuted our ancestors.

    Me too.

    The whole nazi thing is irrelevent in this case. Regardledss of the dialogue in the video, the point was made, and proven, simply by the actions of the police and the suspect.

    actions speak louder than words.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page