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PA: We should take aim at root cause of crime

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Harry Tuttle, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Senior Member

    Nov 14, 2003
    We should take aim at root cause of crime

    Discuss this column
    We should take aim at root cause of crime


    By Mike Seate
    Thursday, September 30, 2004

    My mailbox is empty, but that won't last long. It soon will fill with correspondence, as it does when residents defend themselves with firearms.

    I'm a longtime opponent of the National Rifle Association, and its members and supporters seem compelled to remind me that guns have another purpose besides serving as a form of Viagra for the middle-aged. People use firearms, they inevitably tell me again and again, to defend themselves against criminals.

    This time, the gun lovers couldn't have scored a better public-relations bull's-eye if they tried.

    On Sept. 13, Ras Saleem-Hudson of the North Side pulled on a ski mask and loaded his 9mm handgun before heading out to suburban Harrison.

    Saleem-Hudson, 20, decided to try to rob the home of Eleanor and Leon Cash. He entered the house and demanded money.

    During Saleem-Hudson's struggle with the 59-year-old Leon Cash, Eleanor, 55, grabbed the family's 12-gauge shotgun. Taking aim, she shot and killed Saleem-Hudson.

    Even those of us not harboring any John Wayne fantasies about heroically defending hearth and home against urban savages have got to give props to Mrs. Cash. She took control, and by snuffing out a dirtbag, she likely saved countless others from looking down the business end of Saleem-Hudson's gun.

    It's hard to generate any sympathy for a criminal who so thoroughly plays into every stereotype that the gun lobby has about people like him. Saleem-Hudson could've been a character in an episode of "Law and Order."

    Here's an inner-city thug who intentionally drove 20 miles outside his neighborhood to prey on what he mistakenly thought would be easy targets. The fact that he was black, had an arrest record for everything from drugs to firearms violations and also had a Muslim name seems like a fabricated trifecta for the gun lobby that claims the dark urban masses are only a loaded clip away from attacking white folks in the suburbs.

    Still, I wonder about the whys and hows.

    Why does our society create so many people like Saleem-Hudson, young men willing to kill or die for a few bucks? Why did Saleem-Hudson prey on others? Was he just a bad person, or was there some way he could have led a different life?

    It's unfashionable to discuss the root causes of crime these days, especially when just shooting or jailing the bad guys is so much easier and more satisfying.

    Short of shotguns blasts, how do we stop what seems like an endless supply of Saleem-Hudsons -- guys destined for prison or the graveyard, and maybe for NRA posters?

    Mike Seate is a staff writer for the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. He can be reached at (412) 320-7845 or e-mail him at mseate@tribweb.com.
  2. wasrjoe

    wasrjoe Senior Member

    Jan 7, 2004
    Throw in a little bit of PC stereotyping, a question everyone has asked but doesn't really have solutions to, make sure you provide no solution yourself... wow, good article. :rolleyes:
  3. sumpnz

    sumpnz Senior Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Sedro-Woolley, WA
    Big topic, impossible to effectivly write about in just a few lines. The basic problem is a lack of respect for the value of education, and a lack of a moral center in some of those areas. This is not a racial issue, or even an economic issue. It's an issue of morals and social values that people like the subject of the article are clearly lacking for any of a wide variety of reasons.
  4. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

    Jan 3, 2003
    South PA, and a bit West of center!
    The Saleem-Hudson's of this world are opportunists and probably not the brightest bulb in the box .... for starters. They are available in plenty - and despite knowing (I would hope) that they could well meet with lethal force, they just go ahead and ''try it'' .. hoping they'll get lucky and if necessary cap any obstacles in their way.

    It's a mind set I am always struggling to understand ... unsuccessfully. Like I said in another thread recently - it's as if there is a ''slimeball gene'' .... something which inevitably makes these guys follow the BG route, whatever the risk.

    Bottom line is ... they exist! They probably always will ... and no amount of psycho babble analysis is ever gonna fully explain them - certainly nothing justifies them. Because they are out there ..... is all the reason we need to seek and justify possession of a defensive weapon and use if it comes to it ... a true ''equalizer''. No amount of 911 calls will ever provide a means of stopping these characters .... defence is and has to be - in the hands of the individual.
    What a stupid statement ... I hope this guy is faced one day with looking down a gun barrel and no means of defence.

    Like as not - he like many correspondents of this ilk probably do, secretly, carry anyways ... they are often hypocrites.

    Interesting post Harry.
  5. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    Jan 1, 2003
    SouthEast PA
    Q>>>>Why does our society create so many people like Saleem-Hudson, young men willing to kill or die for a few bucks?

    A: Did Saleeem-Hudson have, or not have free will? Did he have, or not have, any moral agency? Is he entirely a product of society, with no choice other than to be the sum of vectors? Did he have Does our society manufacture human choices, or present them? And what about other societies, where life comes even more cheaply?

    Q>>>>Why did Saleem-Hudson prey on others?

    A: The motive is irrelevant, he CHOSE to prey on them.

    Q>>>>>Was he just a bad person,

    A: 9 out of 10 people with a clue answer: YES!

    Q>>>>>or was there some way he could have led a different life?

    A: Saleem-Hudson faced small choices every day. Each choice took him a step closer, or a step farther away from his date with grannie's shotgun. Yes, there were a million ways he could have lead a different life, and he turned away from every one of them.
  6. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Dec 24, 2002
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    That's the welfare state for you.
  7. RevDisk

    RevDisk Senior Member

    Apr 27, 2004
    Personally, I don't care about the specific financial, religious/spiritual, ethniticity or mental health background of someone trying to break into my house or otherwise possibly try to kill me. Someone kicks in my door waving a gun, I will put them down. No bluster about it, I wouldn't feel great about ending a life. I just value my life more than some intruder's.

    There are many reasons why people choose a life of crime, and it is indeed a way of life. Drugs are often a major factor, probably the biggest factor these days.

    Yes, I would like poverty and drugs to disappear. I can't make them, however. It's personal choice on how we react to life. My personal choice is to work hard, keep my nose clean, and carry an XD in .40 caliber.

    SUE ROVR Member

    Jul 20, 2004
    Last time I checked shot gun shells were 14.58 cents each at wal-mart.

    Pretty inexpensive solution if you ask me, and if you kill them young they reproduce less.
  9. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Senior Member

    Jan 8, 2003
    What Mike doesn't understand thru his racial over tones toward white people defending themselves is that its not societys problem to raise and care for the negelected youth of the inner city.
    If Mike was so concerned he would be writing about the inner city youth and the total lack of parenting instead of accusing gun owners of being sexually impotent.
    Its the typical response of the black democrat looking to blame everyone but themselves.
    The man is keeping us down.............................
    I for one am so sick of this response that I find it harder and harder to feel any sympathy for the inner city dwellers.
  10. SunBear

    SunBear member

    May 27, 2003
    The conditions in which he was raised were undoubtedly the inevitable result of the welfare state creating cascading generations of dependent groups OF ALL RACES. HOWEVER, MILLIONS of people from this SAME environment CHOOSE to SUCCEED by WORKING their way to a better life. They are the answer to the "he's just the product of his environment" rant.

    And yes, the Enlightened, Annointed Ones always exempt themselves from the restrictions they push on the masses. :barf:
  11. Mute

    Mute Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Behind occupied territories. CA.
    You can have a perfect society where everyone is cared for and there will still be crime. Some people just choose to do things the hard (wrong) way. You can't engineer human nature.
  12. RangerHAAF

    RangerHAAF Member

    Jul 24, 2003
    Decatur, Georgia
    The SOB got what was coming to him. Period. I think culturally we've moved beyond trying to reason with killers and dealing with them as they should be dealt with. People like Mr. Seate can pine and cry about the causes and reasons that lead to a life of crime but he does not say that we law-abiding citizens have to deal with the end result of the causes.

    The police in our society are tasked with maintaining social order. They are not mandated to protect anyone from the abuses or evils of the society that we live in. Although libs in big cities seem to think so. As time goes on and the country gets more crowded the conditions are going to worsen and occurrences like the one in the above story are going to become more common.
  13. Rawlings

    Rawlings New Member

    Apr 11, 2003
    Ithaca, NY
    Why is wanting to defend yourself and your loved ones from violent criminals a "John Wayne fantasy?" I guess we should all just roll over and take it, and let the police sort out the chalk outlines later.
  14. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

    Jan 3, 2003
    South PA, and a bit West of center!
    Even now ... this is really p'ing me right off .. what a damned nerve! Sticks in my craw.

    I am near 60 and have NO need of Viagra whatsoever - for any purpose. :p :D
  15. ken w.

    ken w. Member

    Mar 7, 2004
    buffalo,new york

    I may get flack for this but,If a kid grows up in an enviroment where all he see's is drug dealing,prostitution, murder,assult ,and robbing one another and never was taught right from wrong as we were living in the suburbs,how is he to survive in the outside world ?
    I'm not making any excuses for this guy and yes he got what he deserved.Just like a dog,people have to be taught how to behave and learn from example.If generations after generations are to be left on welfare and not be given the opertunity to advance because of their lack of education and their lack of desire to advance then how can we expect them to be civil ?
    If your cat has kittens and you don't pick them up and handle them,they will be antisocial wild animals just like people get.Product of our society ? Maybe.But I think it's time to make everyone responable for their own action.Enough of the free handouts.If your go on welfare because there are no jobs out there,then I feel you should be able to help with public works.Ex: clean up trash, plant grass or flowers in the parks,mow lawns,shovel side walks,etc.
    I am blessed to live in the suburbs and have some rural property,but for what I pay in taxes in N.Y.state my sidewalk should be shoveled by someone other than me.:D
  16. p35

    p35 Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    Puget Sound
    Poor people can do a good job of raising kids if they want to, and rich people can do a piss-poor one. In Juvenile Court every day, I have no trouble picking out the kids who are going to end up in prison by looking at their parents. Poor parenting causes crime, not poverty.

    200 years ago, everyone carried a sword in town, and outside the cities people with money traveled with armed guards on their coaches. I suspect the overall level of crime has gone down over the last hundred years, but it's never going to go away entirely. No point blaming modern society.
  17. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight Senior Member

    Jun 5, 2003
    I think you already know the answer to this question...
  18. UnknownSailor

    UnknownSailor Member

    Dec 25, 2002
    Bremerton, WA
    I recently came across some sobering analysis of the murder rate of the United States. It's really quite simple. Remove the black-on-black statistics, and the per 100,000 murder rate drops to that in line with Eurpoe.

    Sources that led me to this:

    Link 1
    Link 2
    Link 3
    Link 4
  19. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Senior Member

    Dec 31, 2002

    Shotgun blasts are fine with me.

    Why mess with what works?
  20. FPrice

    FPrice Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2002
    People's Commonwealth of Massachusetts
    "Short of shotguns blasts, how do we stop what seems like an endless supply of Saleem-Hudsons -- guys destined for prison or the graveyard, and maybe for NRA posters?"

    Well, you could try stopping the liberal welfare state and re-insitututing processes which teach personal responsibility and moral behavior from birth. But that is probably an unacceptable option to the liberals because it does not do enough to blame society for the individual's ills.

    But even if they did accept this I am sure there would still be a few who, for whatever reason, are wired to take advantage of and victimize others in this manner.

    For them we need to maintain a back-up plan a la Eleanor Cash and her 12-gauge equalizer.

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