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palmetto made ak?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by improperlyaged, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. improperlyaged

    improperlyaged Well-Known Member

    Anyone shot the new psak 47? I have been considering buying their parts kits and assembled barrel to put together an ak but I can't find anyone who actually owns one. I would like to know about reliability, accuracy, durability, and fit and finish. Anyone got a range report? Pics would be nice too.
  2. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Well-Known Member

    You should check out the forums at akfiles.com and the PSA forum @ ar15.com. Lots of user feedback at both sites.

    You will find a lot of negative feedback due to a cast front trunnion (a big no-no for the AK design), misaligned trunnions, parts kits not going together well (beyond the minor fitting all AKs require), missing parts, etc.

    Bottom line is a somewhat disastrous launch. This is one that was definitely under-cooked and should be avoided for the time being.

    Hopefully PSA will quickly replace the cast trunnion with forged and get the QA problems out of the way. I really want to see them succeed, both because PSA is a good company to deal with in my experience, and because foreign supplies of factory-built AKs and parts kits are quickly drying up.
  3. carbine85

    carbine85 Well-Known Member

    I have read the reviews about the cast trunnions and canted sights. I haven't read anywhere where people are having problems with broken trunnions and the sight's can be fixed. I have also read that Palmetto's service is pretty good. I'm not to sure I would buy one given the fact there are surplus kits still available.
  4. improperlyaged

    improperlyaged Well-Known Member

    See I haven't found any of that. I have searched "psak 47 review" and "Palmetto AK 47" and found no results.
  5. Jackal

    Jackal Well-Known Member

    Has PSA ever had a smooth launch of ANY new product? Dont get me wrong, I like and endorse PSA, but their new product launch's are rough to say the least...
  6. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Well-Known Member

    Ask yourself this: Is it not better to have done things right the first time, so you don't have to depend on a warranty? A broken rifle with a great warranty is worth nothing if it breaks when you need it.

    The AKM forged trunnion design has been tested in all temperatures and all environments. It is a known quality that no one would have questioned. I seriously doubt PSA has done this level of testing (in cold and hot environments) with their cast trunnions. All it takes is a small undetectable void to turn a cast trunnion into a hand grenade. I.O. can show you how that works.
  7. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Well-Known Member

    Go to the "AK-47" forum on akfiles.com. Quite a few threads there with the user feedback you seek.
  8. NWcityguy2

    NWcityguy2 Well-Known Member

    There are and were lots of things that started as unacceptable cost cutting changes but have now become accepted. I'm not going to make a list, but it wouldn't be hard. I've read a few threads about cast trunnions on akfiles and I'll be the first to say that I'm not convinced, at least with what I have read. The cliff notes version is lots of talk about military contracts and military use, without much talk about civilian uses.

    I will say this though. If casting a trunnion is a budget option, then it needs to be on a budget gun. Right now the PSAK-47, launch issues aside, is priced higher than the features suggest.
  9. Quiet

    Quiet Well-Known Member

    Cast trunnions are being used in all US made AK style firearms that are priced under $1000...

    Century Arms C39
    Century Arms C39V2
    Century Arms RAS47
    IO Inc AKM247
    Kalashnikov USA US132
    Palmetto State Armory PSAK47
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2015
  10. mshootnit

    mshootnit Well-Known Member

    I also noticed the carrier groove for the bolt is machined (cast?) shallower than all my com bloc AKs. No thanks I'll stick with the Bulgarian and Russian rifles. I wouldnt buy a Russian AR though...
  11. NWcityguy2

    NWcityguy2 Well-Known Member

    So basically, the use of a cast trunnion is being taken out of context when people only mention the IO and PSA as having them.
  12. Jackal

    Jackal Well-Known Member

    The cost saving measures of modern rifles are the reason I suggest folks look for a good older Chinese AK like a Mak or NHM.
  13. improperlyaged

    improperlyaged Well-Known Member

    I won't ever own a rifle that uses cast parts where there is high pressure. The trunnion takes some serious abuse and I think that part needs to be forged.
  14. HankC

    HankC Well-Known Member

    Highly possible, they are made by the same source. IO AK only sell for $500 and folks still don't want to buy them.
  15. carbine85

    carbine85 Well-Known Member

    Does Ruger still use investment castings in their manufacturing?
    I think Mini 14 receivers are cast. My point is casted parts can be a reliable alternative to the more expensive forged steel.
    It's the barrel of the AK that takes most of the force.
  16. Quiet

    Quiet Well-Known Member

    Kalashnikov USA is using cast trunnions on the AK style firearms they are making.

    The AK style firearms they converted from imported Saiga firearms have forged trunnions.
  17. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Well-Known Member

    The fact that you see IO in that list should tell you everything you need to know.

    Bottom line is that NO AKs ever manufactured for military use have ever used a cast trunnion. Kalashnikov didn't use cast trunnions. Zastava didn't, Cugir didn't. Norinco didn't. Arsenal Bulgaria didn't, East Germany didn't, Egypt didn't, Hungary didn't, Iraq didn't, Poland didn't. They all use forged trunnions.

    All of those countries have access to modern metallurgy and casting technology. The Russians have used cast gas blocks, front sights, and other low-stress parts since the early '70s.

    Guess what they still don't do? Use cast barrel trunnions.
  18. NWcityguy2

    NWcityguy2 Well-Known Member

    None of those AKs are being sold or used for military use. My 1911 doesn't have a forged frame, but has 40k rounds through it. One of my ARs doesn't have a chrome lined barrel, but I just finished 3rd out of 19 at a 3-gun this weekend. Civilians have different needs than the military does.

    Those of us who have a practical use for our rifles tend to have a better grasp on what we actually need. The whole "different from the way it is issued" doesn't carry much weight with us. That is why hunters, competitive shooters and LE generally know what they need, while tactical shooters are constantly lost in a wash of marketing forces and online opinion makers. One group has a practical purpose that they can carry out in real life while the other group does not.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  19. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Well-Known Member

    I believe you missed the point.

    The AK front trunnion is not designed to be a cast piece, and, unlike many of the parts, say, Ruger casts on may of its products, is subject to quite a bit of stress. For example, as good as Ruger is at casting, note that it does not cast the slide of its 1911. While the frame (which on a 1911 is subject to very low stresses) is cast, that part is still forged.

    Again, the whole issue stems from the presence of any undetectable internal voids in the casting. Any one example may be just fine. The problem is that you have no way of knowing. Again - not a big deal on part with no/low stresses.

    The AK front trunnion is a different story entirely.

    Likewise, having chrome lining versus no chrome lining on an AR barrel is irrelevant to the discussion. An AR without chrome lining is still safe to operate. The same has not been proven of an AK with a cast front trunnion.
  20. NWcityguy2

    NWcityguy2 Well-Known Member

    Actual results from actual usage is the test. That is the point. In a few years these questions will be answered, not by debating it online.

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