Patenting a cartridge dimensions?

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Lets looks at something to do it yourself IF a gunsmith had a reamer using parts from known manufacturers.

Stainless Steel Match Barrel Blank (Krieger, Lilja, etc) = $300.00
Turning & Chambering Service = $150.00
Barrel Extension = $15.00
A3 Upper Receiver = $125.00
Enlarging Ejection Port = $25.00
Gas Block & Gas Tube = $50.00
Bolt & Bolt Carrier = $125.00
Charging Handle = $25.00
Handguard = $40.00
Magazine = $32.00

Grand Total = $887.00

Then pay someone $100.00 to assemble, supply ammo for test firing and you have a grand total of $987.00.

Douglas barrel blank = $150 It's a hunting rifle I want.
Turning & Chambering Service = $150.00
Barrel Extension = $15.00
A3 Upper Receiver = have it
Enlarging Ejection Port = do it myself
Gas Block & Gas Tube = have it
Bolt & Bolt Carrier = $125.00
Charging Handle = have it
Handguard = have it
Magazine = $32.00

Assemble myself.

Grand Total = $472.00

Whaddya know, seems I saved quite a bit of money there eh? Thanks but no thanks for selling me the stuff I don't want or need.
 
hey rook, maybe you could work out a deal with CSS, whereby you send all the parts you already have + the barrel blank you buy else where, and they build it to your specs. then maybe the cost would be more reasonable like ~5-6 hundred.

atek3
 
I already set my terms for a 6.5 Grendel clone upper a couple post ago. No way am I sending them my money when they can't even interpret the law properly, and then have the nerve to tell me I can't do what I want when it's perfectly legal. Like I said, I'm going with the 6.8 SPC until some latter date. At least Remington seems to want my money.
 
they can't even interpret the law properly, and then have the nerve to tell me I can't do what I want when it's perfectly legal
All things considered, its rather hard to say what you can do without infringing their rights when no one can say what their rights are.
You have not proven your interpretation of the law is correct any more than we have proven our interpretation is correct. You keep saying "it is perfectly legal," when one poster says there IS an issue, and one poster says "maybe."

Enough about that, we could argue forever and I am tired of it. Maybe we can just agree to disagree?


Douglas barrel blank = $150 It's a hunting rifle I want.
Turning & Chambering Service = $150.00
Barrel Extension = $15.00
A3 Upper Receiver = have it
Enlarging Ejection Port = do it myself
Gas Block & Gas Tube = have it
Bolt & Bolt Carrier = $125.00
Charging Handle = have it
Handguard = have it
Magazine = $32.00

Assemble myself.

Grand Total = $472.00
Just some additional things to consider:

Where is the person doing the turning and chambering service going to get the reamer. If it is only for you, how much would it cost? $150-$200? When having a gunsmith prepare a "wildcat" cartridge, they pass the cost of the reamer along to the customer. Is the gunsmith going to know what size gas port to drill to assure proper and safe functioning of the rifle?

How about your time spent on labor, your opportunity cost. You have above multiple hours of your time, say you make $20/hour, the labor cost would be in the $100-$150 range total? 5 to 7 hours spent ordering, assembling, tweeking the barrel extension, testing to assure safe pressure and operation, etc.

Finally, and most importatnly, how about the liability coverage that is included in the AA 6.5 Grendel upper. You would not have that with your "clone." If it blows up in your face, who are you going to collect damages from?

I have enjoyed this debate with you. I took offense at N-A-L's comments when he got personal over at the other board, but you have kept things in a professional tone. I have learned something here as well. This is what debate is all about, and I guess that is why I prefer THR to the other boards. Everyone here seems to take THR and it keeps this place fun.

Again, good luck with your project, whatever you decide to do, and be safe. We need as many people on our side as possible. Be sure to get out and vote this Nov, if Kerry get elected all this AR talk might just be a moot point, and WE DONT WANT THAT!!! :)
 
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You keep saying "it is perfectly legal," when the above say "maybe."

Apparently you didn't read patent's last two posts.

Just where is the person doing the turning and chambering service going to get the reamer. If it is only for you, how much would it cost? - $150-$200? When having a gunsmith prepare a "wildcat" cartridge, they normally pass the cost of the reamer along to the customer. Is the gunsmith going to know what size gas port to drill to assure proper and safe functioning of the rifle?

Sheesh, didn't you read the bit about doing this if someone starting doing the chambering themselves? If they don't, I will gladly eat the cost of the reamer for my own wildcat. I could also do my own chamber reaming if I wanted to, that leaves getting the barrel turned and the initial gas port drilled. Gas port size: start small and work up.

How about your time spent on labor, the opportunity cost. You have above multiple hours of your time, say you make $20/hour, the labor cost would be in the $100-$150 range total? 5 to 7 hours spent ordering, assembling, tweeking the barrel extension, testing to assure safe pressure and operation, etc.

Last I checked, I didn't charge myself to work in my free time. The tweaking I can do myself, if I had a lathe I could turn my own barrels. Firearms are a hobby, I find it an interesting field to dabble in. If I considered my time that precious, I wouldn't handload.

How about the liability coverage that is included in the AA 6.5 Grendel upper. You will not have that with your "clone." If it blows up in your face, who are you going to collect damages from?

If someone starts producing similarly chambered barrels/bolts and selling them, who says they won't offer some form of warranty? With a wildcat, well that's more along the lines of inventor/user beware isn't it? So long as you're careful with your loadings, it should be no more dangerous than any other wildcat. Some people in this day and age still believe in personal responsibility, not blaming their problems on someone else.
 
Rook,

What you do for yourself, for your own personal use, is your business... Under Federal law you can even make a complete firearm from scratch. You only get in trouble when you sell it and then you enter the world of business which is what the law deals with. Since you went to an internet forum to seek legal opinion, you clearly have not invested the money to consult with trademark, patent or copyright attorneys.

Again, do your project, you will find you can't modify a .223 barrel extension and thats not my opinion,those are the words of the engineer who designed them because you would have to add metal to machine it away. You will have to give careful thought to your wildcat, because a chamber designed for a bolt gun is not the same as the chamber for a semi-auto.

As far as developing loads, proceed with caution and beware that in the AR15, there is the issue of bolt thrust and a case can show no signs of a load being over pressure, but you are over the bolt thrust levels of the AR15 platform and putting major fatigue on every part.

If a business out there wants to make "6.5 Grendel compatible" barrels and bolts for the AR15, they can and will be dealt with if they use the 6.5 Grendel trademark to market them. Of course, they may find it is all a waste of effort and money since as I said in the beginning. Currently, as of this point in time, barrels and bolts are not available as parts. In the future, they may be available.

Having checked your profile, Happy 20th birthday and I wish you success in completing your college education.
 
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Again, do your project, you will find you can't modify a .223 barrel extension and thats not my opinion, thats those are the words of the engineer who designed them.

I'm sure if one can't be modified, a local machinist can help in forming one from scratch.

As far as developing loads, proceed with caution and beware that in the AR15, there is the issue of bolt thrust and a case can no signs of a load being over pressure, but you are putting major fatigue on every part.

Most of that can be overcome with data that predicts pressures for a load. It gives you a good area to work with and if you don't push the limits you should be fine. If I was really worried, I could probably hunt someone down with a strain gage for load development. Just becareful and don't push the hot loads like you do in a bolt rifle. I'll probably be facing similar problems with my 6.8 SPC. No data, beyond Zak's, exist and I will be handloading for it. I'm not even going to attempt to afford the expected $17/box for OTM loads. I would do the same with the Grendel as well.

Having checked your profile, Happy 20th birthday and I wish you success in completing your college education.

Thank you, hopefully I'll finish within the next two years and can get a job where money isn't a problem. Being a college student zaps your funds.
 
If a business out there wants to make "6.5 Grendel compatible" barrels and bolts for the AR15, they can and will be dealt with if they use the 6.5 Grendel trademark to market them.

Has AA said this somehere, or do you speak for them? On what do you base this?

patent
 
I am co-developer of the 6.5 Grendel and I speak to AA everyday. They are reviewing requests from reputable manufacturers and are granting licenses to those companies that they deem add value to the product line.

Why are they not letting it out to anyone and everyone to do as they please? Because someone doing a substandard product can damage the product in the marketplace and / or possibly endanger the safety of the consumer.
 
I am co-developer of the 6.5 Grendel and I speak to AA everyday. They are reviewing requests from reputable manufacturers and are granting licenses to those companies that they deem add value to the product line.

Cool, thanks. What are they licensing? Are they licensing a trademark? Or just general know how? Perhaps that the manufacturer would then be an AA approved source?

I guess my question is, how do they plan to "deal with" anyone who makes it, but has not licensed it from them?

I just don't see much of a basis yet for saying others can't make the grendel.

patent
 
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