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Permanently attached suppressor?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by expvideo, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. expvideo

    expvideo Well-Known Member

    My state doesn't allow SBRs, but I see a lot of rifles with 10.5" barrels and a long flash hider permanently attached. So if you can get a fixed flash-hider and not have an SBR, would a rifle with a 10.5" barrel and a suppressor over 5.5" in length be GTG, or would that still qualify as an SBR?

    Basically that is the setup I'd like to run on an AR, but I don't know how realistic of an idea that is, from a legal standpoint.
  2. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

    As long as the total length of the barrel (including any PERMANENT attachments, not just the rifled portion) is >16", you are good to go, unless your state has funky rules that go beyond the Federal ones.

    Having said that, I'd rather have a 14.5" barrel and a permanently attached 1.5" flash suppressor (Smith Enterprises Vortex, arguably the best on the market) than a 10.5" with a less-effective 5.5" flash suppressor. That way, you have more muzzle velocity, less blast, and less muzzle flash, with the same overall length.

    TRGRHPY Well-Known Member

    I think that he means a sound suppressor instead of a flash suppressor.

    I don't know for sure re: a permanent sound suppressor. I can only guess at this one, and I don't feel like arguing this early in the morning with someone trying to put me in my place.

    My concern would be finding one that comes apart on both ends in case of part(s) replacement and/or cleaning.
  4. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    That’s what I did on my 9mm AR with a form 1 integral suppressor (16.125 with end cap off). If you don’t have machine shop equipment there are companies that make integral suppressed uppers as well. The tax stamp will cost $200 and they are taking about 3-4 months for approval. Here is a link to the one I built.

  5. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    Oh, I just noticed what state you live in. I have heard that it is legal to own and possess a silencer in WA but you can’t use it. I would check before spending any money.
  6. expvideo

    expvideo Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I should have clarified. I am talking about a sound suppressor or "silencer". These suppressors are legal in my state, but SBRs are not. I would like to get a 10.5" upper with a permanently attached suppressor if it is possible. I just want to make sure that this would count legally as a 16+" barrel.

    I am only concerned with Federal law. I am aware of my state laws.

    My family has property in Idaho. I'm aware of the state law, but thanks for the heads up!
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2009
  7. waterhouse

    waterhouse Well-Known Member

    What you are talking about doing is legal on a Federal level. FBMG used to make a one tax upper that was exactly like you describe, not sure if they still do . . . I can't find it on their website anymore. You paid the tax only on the suppressor since it was perm. attached and was not considered an SBR.
  8. MisterPX

    MisterPX Well-Known Member

    Keep in mind the WA stupid can laws, and that if your can can be dissassembled, leaving less than 16" oal barrel, you're back to square one with teh SBR.
  9. nalioth

    nalioth Well-Known Member

    Are SBR's legal in Idaho?
  10. waterhouse

    waterhouse Well-Known Member

    I believe they are, but it wouldn't matter for the OP's case. He would be permanently attaching the silencer to make the barrel length greater than 16".
  11. jbauch357

    jbauch357 Well-Known Member

    to satisfy the length requirements the AK I received a couple months back had a 3" threaded muzzle brake permenantly attached via a single spot weld.

    after the first range day the spot weld broke - and the rifle went directly to the gunsmith to fix the broken weld plus add one or two more for good measure...
  12. kludge

    kludge Well-Known Member

  13. moooose102

    moooose102 Well-Known Member

    I would run that past someone in your state that is knowledgeble about your laws. In michigan, sound supressors of any type are not legal for the general public. If you belong to a gun club, usually somebody there is an attorney. If not, you might want to call or write to the nra.
  14. Ranb

    Ranb Well-Known Member

    expvideo; As long as the flash hider or silencer is permanently attached to the barrel and makes it greater than 16 inches long, you are legal. Unfortunately WA law makes using and device to reduce the report of a firearm a gross misdemeanor; 6 months in the can or a $1000 fine. Not too many people own silencers in WA as a result.

    I make my own on ATF form 1’s, paying the same $200 tax for each as if I bought them from a dealer. I only get to enjoy them when I travel out of state to where they are legal to use.


    Opps, I see that you are able to enjoy them in the great state of ID. Traveling with silencers across states lines does not require that the ATF be informed as with machine guns and SBR/SBS's. I would make the silencer a separate screw on can and leave the SBR in Idaho. You can also just keep the short upper in ID and use the lower with a longer upper in WA. WA defines an SBR by barrel length, I do not think they care if it is a registered SBR with a longer than 16" barrel on it. Good luck.
  15. IdahoLT1

    IdahoLT1 Well-Known Member

    SBR's, machine guns and silencers are legal in Idaho. We are one of the most gun lax states. Vermont more gun lax than us that im aware of. But you might run into problems because ive heard sound supressor have a life expectancy. Im not sure how many round but their sound supressing effectiveness will run out and you will either need to have a new one installed or end up with a eventually front heavy ar15. Gemtech is located here in Boise and they make a good product at reasonable prices. Might check them out and ask them questions pertaining to the life of their silencers or other options they might have.

    techstaff @ gem-tech.com
    (208) 939-7222
  16. MisterPX

    MisterPX Well-Known Member

    If he ended up going SBR, then he'd have to file a 5320 with the ATF to take it across state lines. Fed trumps state, the lower rec. IS the SBR.
  17. Ranb

    Ranb Well-Known Member

    Opps, forgot to mention that the ATF is informed when crossing state lines with SBR. Thanks.

  18. BlacklabelOP

    BlacklabelOP member

    DUDE I am in OR, talk to a local ffl instead of Teh internets.. and your answer is yes!

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