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Petition to strike at the root cause of mass shootings

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by bluetentacle, Dec 16, 2012.

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  1. bluetentacle

    bluetentacle New Member

    Petitions for gun control are gaining a lot of traction at the moment. Meanwhile, almost no one is talking about the actual root cause of these mass shootings--the nation's woefully inadequate mental health policy. If you agree, make yourself heard by signing this petition: http://wh.gov/R6Yn. In doing so we can help direct the national conversation toward more sensible solutions than gun control. We need 150 signatures to make it publicly visible on the site. Thank you
  2. Odd Job

    Odd Job Well-Known Member

    Can you edit it? Need to change "spade" to spate.
  3. bluetentacle

    bluetentacle New Member

    Unfortunately I cannot. :( I hope it's not too distracting to most people.
  4. Coltdriver

    Coltdriver Well-Known Member

    I could not agree more.

    It is a reality of life today that we absolutely need to manage our mentally unstable population in an affirmative and humane way.

    Thank you so much for putting this up. I had made the exact same argument on this board recently. The root cause of every mass shooting is always mental instability.
  5. Dreamliner787

    Dreamliner787 Well-Known Member

    Mental illness is deffinitely one reason, but also notice the age of these shooters as well. This might be a bigger issue with morality of our current society (our country) as a whole.
  6. Taurus 617 CCW

    Taurus 617 CCW Well-Known Member

    Can't believe that I am only #10. We need to get this thing off the ground! I emailed a few people that will pass it on after signing.
  7. jim243

    jim243 Well-Known Member

    Didn't the SS and Gestapo do just that and said the same thing?? Be very careful what you ask for, you just may get it.
  8. wally

    wally Well-Known Member

    I think it'd be better to start again with a version without typos.
  9. ilbob

    ilbob Well-Known Member

    The problem with the mental health field in general is that the track record of the so called professionals in that field is very spotty. There has never been any indication that they are capable of weeding out the really bad apples from among the just unusual.
  10. mg.mikael

    mg.mikael Well-Known Member

    No the Nazis killed those they declared "mentally deficient," what we need and hopefully get is a conversation started on America's mental health system. Changes need to happen and hopefully by talking about it real change (no, not that Obama kind of change) can occur.
  11. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    I think the petition focusing on the sorry state of mental health in this country is a good idea.

    The Washington Post has a graphic and list that they list a dozen of what they call mass shootings for 2012. It is somewhat misleading since it includes shootings where theres a family or business relationship gone bad along with the inexplicable 5 mass shootings this year. Still it is useful as a reminder to us that there is a disturbingly greater number of incidents this year compared to years past. 5 of what I see as mass shootings (plus a couple of others that could be) is a terribly large number. Some of the shootings were just short blips on the news and some weren't even that, but there they are for us and the rest of the world to see. That information will be used by Antis and unbiased concerned people both to argue for controls on firearms possession, use and storage that we need to expect.

    If we've had 5-7 mass shootings this year alone, we as a responsible community need to engage in the discussion acknowledging that there is a problem instead of refusing to even discuss there is one. Our challenge is in helping people see that you have to look for the root cause of each incident to see the root cause of the greater problem and not just at the direct and contributing factors (firearms accessed by these people is just a contributing factor leading to the severity of the incident). It is lazy risk analysis to just glance at the surface of an incident or series of them and then develop controls expecting to address the real root of the problem. It is also dishonest to start with a bias, against or for, and pick your information and controls to support your bias. Antis do this all the time, but too many of us do as well. If there have been 5 or more mass shootings this year there is a real problem that needs to be honestly analyzed and the root cause identified and practicable controls established.

    My opinion is that we have a mental health problem in this country as the root cause for these catastrophic incidents involving firearms. We need to address the root cause and the contributing and direct factors leading to the inexplicable shooting of 4 or more people at a single place and time.
  12. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately I see where the short thinker's passions lie in the post event debates/demands following various tragedies.

    Blame the "thing", be it a firearm, SUV, fertilizer, civil transport vehicle and the like.

    This is far easier for the loudest shouters who are too often intellectually lazy and/or agenda-driven dishonest. Far easier to blame the "thing", it's makers, sellers, owners and supporters.

    This frees the screamers of engaging in the real and difficult, non-distracted discussions about the perpetrators, their backgrounds, their mental health, their truest known motives and motivators and whether or not the perpetrators courses of action (regardless of the tools used) could really have been predicted let alone headed off in a free society.

    And save the clap-trap about whether or not we're free in America. Travel more than a tourist and you'll see that we are and with that freedom comes some tough experiences.
  13. Coltdriver

    Coltdriver Well-Known Member

    Jim243, talk like that really adds nothing to getting the problem solved.

    The one thing Ronald Reagan, who I generally loved, did that I vehemently disagreed with was to break up and de fund the nations mental health facilities.

    Its a simple fact that we have, as humans, those among us who are mentally ill.

    When Ronnie closed the facilities our homeless population went thru the roof.

    Managing a few hundred thousand mentally unstable people, even fairly aggressively, would be easier and more effective that trampling my 2nd amendment rights and trying to manage over 400 million guns. At what point does a known threat to society lose some of their rights? It should not be after they have killed 20 or 30 people.

    Mental illness has been the common thread through every one of these shootings. While no solution would be perfect this approach has a very high possibility of being very effective in reducing these shootings.
  14. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Well-Known Member

    This is a contributing factor, but the root cause is something else.

    Someone else said it better than I can:

    "You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
    It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
    people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

    CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

    You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  15. Hammerhead6814

    Hammerhead6814 Well-Known Member

    The only problem is that we'd have to raise taxes to bring back the mental health system your talking about. That (raising taxes to benefit the country) will never happen. In America, we protect the rich before we protect our children.
  16. RaceM

    RaceM Well-Known Member

    Mainstreaming the crazies doesn't work. Raising a generation of kids who are into instant gratification, a sense of entitlement, and who are not held accountable for their actions doesn't work. Thank the Progressive social engineering agenda for the body count.
  17. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Well-Known Member

    Attention should be given to the impact that the overuse of psychotropic drugs on children. We have used powerful drugs on several generations of adolescent children when their brains are still in the developmental stages. They study the hell out of soda pop and french fries but something that can cause real psychological trauma is waved off because it is an expedient for lazy parents.
  18. captain awesome

    captain awesome Well-Known Member

    I think something needs to be said here. People are all shook up about a problem that to be honest is barely a problem at all (sorry hso, I just disagree with you comparing it to other things). Look up statistics of deaths by many other means. These mass shootings are NOT that common. On any given day more children died by disease, or vehicle collisions (and many other catagories as well, but they don't need to be listed here) in america than were shot on those days. The odds of your child dieing in a school shooting are astronomically low.

    I really don't mean to be insensitive here, because I shed some tears when I heard about it, and thought about my own child. It is a tradgedy to be sure, but is not every childs death a tradjedy? Or any one who's life is cut short for that matter? I am a realist and people really ought to step back and ask what are some REAL problems in this contry that need to be addressed? Thinking critically, gun control should not be at the top of their lists.

    All that being said, I am in agreement that the real issue in these cases are these mentally insane and disturbed individuals, not guns. Else where, where guns are not available they do the same thing but with blades instead.

    I will see if I can find some statistics on deaths to back up my claims, though I really don't think it necessary, as people have known it to be true for years but choose to ignore it.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  19. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, but this is the "root cause" of the issue.

    There are several ways that this shooting could have been averted, and I don't think making schools "gun free" or having a better mental health system is the way to do it.
  20. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Well-Known Member

    I think the sensationalism of these horrific events by the media is as much as a factor of why they happen as is mental illness. While someone that has been ignored or given little attention their whole life may feel they have nuttin' to live for, they also think of going out with a bang and making their name a household word is how they want the world to remember them. The chance of finally having 15 minutes of frame is motivation to them to take the lives of innocent victims and the more horrendous, the more media coverage. The 24hr continuous newscasts with the shooters name streaming across the screen continuously and all the attention on the intimate details of their life is why, IMHO, so many of these incidents are copy-catted and occur soon after another. While I understand the public's concern about the victims and the need to be informed, I wish shooters in these types of incidents would only be referred to as "dirtball" or "worm" by the media and their real names kept from the public.
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