pistol powder question?

[Axis II]

I am using hp-38 for 9mm 124gr and when I look at my books for other powders I see more of a variance with them say 3gr-5gr but hp-38 is 3.9-4.4. so you really cant "work up" a load. I fired 5 shots the other night of 4gr 124gr plated seated at 1.140 and they cycled fine but sounded a little light and gave me a lot of soot on the brass. I loaded 10 today at 4.2gr to see if that helps any.

why is this there such a small margin for this powder?

 

[Rule3]

We would have to know what powders you are comparing HP 38 to??

Probably has to do with the burn speed of the powder.

Look at Hodgdon powders for a 124 gr plated. All those powders and there is not a whole lot of variance??

9mm is a small high pressure round so a little bit makes a big difference as does setting depth can change pressure a lot.

Hp 38 has 0.5 gr variance and HS 6 has 0.6, longshot has 1.0 gr

Fast powders will take very little to up the pressure

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

 

[Axis II]

We would have to know what powders you are comparing HP 38 to??

Probably has to do with the burn speed of the powder.

Look at Hodgdon powders for a 124 gr plated. All those powders and there is not a whole lot of variance??

9mm is a small high pressure round so a little bit makes a big difference as does setting depth can change pressure a lot.

Hp 38 has 0.5 gr variance and HS 6 has 0.6, longshot has 1.0 gr

Fast powders will take very little to up the pressure

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

thanks. I was looking at my 2 books and was just curious.im a tinkerer and stuff like this gets my mind running and I have to know why. I only reloaded 223 until this week and the hp-38 looked way different than the 223 powder and they have a huge variance to go on but pistol doesn't.

 

[Walkalong]

but hp-38 is 3.9-4.4. so you really cant "work up" a load. I

It has a narrow spread for a reason, but yes you can and should. You'll find a big difference in velocity/performance from the start to max load.

 

[badkarmamib]

thanks. I was looking at my 2 books and was just curious.im a tinkerer and stuff like this gets my mind running and I have to know why. I only reloaded 223 until this week and the hp-38 looked way different than the 223 powder and they have a huge variance to go on but pistol doesn't.

To put it in perspective, look at the variances in relation to full case capacity. They aren't as far apart as it first seems...

 

[mdi]

Fast powders and small cases. Pressure rise isn't linear and a little powder can jump pressures up quickly to max./dangerous levels. I've been using Universal with my 115 gr. 9mm loads and the "window" is only 1/2 grain, min-max., and looking at my Hodgdon manual there isn't any recommended powder listed with a larger "window"...

 

[Rule3]

thanks. I was looking at my 2 books and was just curious.im a tinkerer and stuff like this gets my mind running and I have to know why. I only reloaded 223 until this week and the hp-38 looked way different than the 223 powder and they have a huge variance to go on but pistol doesn't.

Yes, but the difference between a fast pistol powder (in a small case)and a slow rifle powder(in a bigger case) is a apples and grapefruits (or something)

Which is why you must be very accurate on weighing fast powders like BE or Titegroup in those small high pressure cases like 9mm and why they are not the best choice in magnum loads (yes, I know people use it but that's another day)

So your medium powders like HP 38, Unique and similar are good for the 9mm (there are others of course)

 

[Sunray]

"...so you really cant "work up" a load..." Yes, you can. The number of loads possible doesn't matter.

 

[bullseye308]

Try some BE-86 if you can find some. I'm using it in 9mm and it has a much wider range.

 

[murf]

Another possibility is light case-bullet tension. this can be a big problem with the 9mm round as case dimensions are all over the place. you may just need a bit more tension.

murf

 

[RecoilRob]

Just for fun, load one case with the starting charge then another with the maximum and compare how much volume difference you see. 231 is a flattened ball powder but not nearly as dense as a rifle ball powder like H335. So even though we load by weight, in the small 9mm case just a little powder goes a long way to filling up the case and .1 grain can have a lot more impact on the pressure than the same variation in a rifle. This is also one of the reasons it's very important to have a good powder measure that throws an accurate charge every time. 231 excels at this and is an excellent choice for 9mm.

 

[25-5]

I use W231 for my .38 S&W British top breaks. Very good result in such very small brass. Titegroup works well too, though I never found any published data.

 

[Tcruse]

For Xtreme Plated RN 124g - I use load data for SIE 125g FMJ. (.355 dia)
HP38/W231 range 4.4 - 4.8 is the listed range (for me 4.8 gives most accurate loads)
CFE Pistol range 4.6 - 5.1
TiteGroup range 4.1 - 4.4
COL 1.090
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

HP-38 and CFE Pistol both are excellent choices
TiteGroup also works well, but not quite as good for this bullet

 

[Dudedog]

Think about it in %
.4gr is 10% of the start charge.
in 7 RM mag with a 150 and 4831 listed start 59gr listed MAX 66gr
12% of 59 is 7 so 12% on this round Start to MAX

..416 Rigby with a 400gr and RX22
Start 96 MAX 101gr 5gr difference so only about 4.5% start to MAX

 

[Axis II]

For Xtreme Plated RN 124g - I use load data for SIE 125g FMJ. (.355 dia)
HP38/W231 range 4.4 - 4.8 is the listed range (for me 4.8 gives most accurate loads)
CFE Pistol range 4.6 - 5.1
TiteGroup range 4.1 - 4.4
COL 1.090
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

HP-38 and CFE Pistol both are excellent choices
TiteGroup also works well, but not quite as good for this bullet

just curious where you found 4.4-4.8gr for hp-38. both my books and hodgdon.com shows 4.4 max load.

 

[2bfree]

just curious where you found 4.4-4.8gr for hp-38. both my books and hodgdon.com shows 4.4 max load.

If you read his post he is using FMJ data that is fine being Xtreme says you can load to 1200 FPS. Your using lead data that is generally lower. So, your books and Hodgdon.com do show it.

 

[hdwhit]

Walkalong wrote:

You'll find a big difference in velocity/performance from the start to max load.

Amen to that.

Going from the data Hodgdon's publishes on the container, the range for HP-38 with a 115 grain FMJ bullet would be starting at 4.5 grains reaching a maximum of 5.1 grains.

In my case, 4.5 grains generates velocities of about 950 fps and causes my Taurus PT-111 to short-cycle. 4.6 grains starts to nudge 1,000 fps but still won't reliably function the gun. 4.7 to 4.8 grains reaches roughly 1,100 fps and starts to be reliable. 4.9 to 5.0 grains yields around 1,200 fps (with large variance in the velocities) and cratered primers. So, as I near maximum loading, a 1/10 grain increase is producing gains of upwards of 100 fps. For my particular combination of powder, bullet and gun, the range of usable loads is 2/10 grain.

 

[Axis II]

If you read his post he is using FMJ data that is fine being Xtreme says you can load to 1200 FPS. Your using lead data that is generally lower. So, your books and Hodgdon.com do show it.

hodgdon.com doesn't list a 124gr fmj bullet for hp-38 is why I asked.

 

[2bfree]

hodgdon.com doesn't list a 124gr fmj bullet for hp-38 is why I asked.

125 gr is close enough, all you have to do is look.

 

[Axis II]

125 gr is close enough, all you have to do is look.

new to the pistol thing so didn't think it would be "the same"

 

[Axis II]

okay so I got one for ya guys. if my gun shoots a good group at 4.2gr and cycles with no issues there should be no reason to go up in charge right to save some powder?

 

[PCFlorida]

If you are shooting paper it sounds like you have a good load.

 

[Tcruse]

just curious where you found 4.4-4.8gr for hp-38. both my books and hodgdon.com shows 4.4 max load.

This is from Hodgdon.com. SIE 125 FMJ is suitable for 124g FMJ or Xtreme plated .355 bullets. For .356 sized bullets it would be a bit high.

 

[Eagle103]

I've been using 4.8g of HP 38 for both 9mm with 124g Berry's and 38 Special with 125g Rainiers. Both shoot great and I can use the same powder drum on my classic Turret with no changing powders either. W 231 is the exact same powder these days so buy whichever is cheaper. $4 less for the HP38 around here.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

With W231/HP-38 in the 9mm when using a 124/125gr lead bullet I usually a charge 4.0gr charge. After all that ammo is only for the range but I did test 4.2gr and 4.4gr loads too. Since all three seemed to be equally accurate I saw no reason to charge more than 4.0gr.

When loading a 124gr jacketed bullet I usually charge 4.6gr W231. I tried a 4.8gr load but it was not as accurate as the 4.6gr load in my guns.

When loading a JHP bullet for more serious work I will normally use slower powders like Longshot, HS-6 and sometimes AA#5.