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Pizzamen and guns in Indy.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Warren, Jul 16, 2004.

  1. Warren

    Warren Well-Known Member

    Click here for a good story on how independent pizza places let their drivers carry, but how chains won't.

    Also the side bar on the most dangerous jobs is interesting.

    Also check out the quote by the Domino's dude. What a maroon.
  2. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

    Notice how police officers never seem to make the top ten in those lists.
  3. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Well-Known Member

    In addition to allowing their delivery drivers to protect themselves, they usually have better pizza then the big chains as well :D
  4. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra Well-Known Member

    CCW deterrence at work!

  5. Warren

    Warren Well-Known Member


    Yet sales route drivers, and I am one, have to go to them for permission to protect ourselves. Chaps my hide.

    I bet drivers shoot the wrong person a lot less of the time, and I'm pretty sure when we kick in a door it's the right house. :D
  6. Treylis

    Treylis Well-Known Member

    No-knock pizza warrants. ;-)
  7. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    I worked as a pizza delivery driver for a couple of months in college. I carried every time. I didn't care what the boss would have said had he found out.
  8. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

    I applied for a couple of delivery jobs for part time evening work. I could care less what their weapons policies are other than of course the symbolism of it. It's not like I'm going to put them on my resume. :cool:
  9. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

    Justin, :what: no stories about sorority house deliveries.:D

    "This is El Tejon, I'd like an eel and tofu pie with extra magazines on the side. Deliver to 225 Main Street.":D
  10. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

    if I ever had that job I would carry regardless of company policy. was a very brutal murder of a pizza hut delivery man not that long ago in my area.

    the delivery man had his skull cracked and his throat slit for his car,little money and pizza. teenage boy and adult female wanted to steel his car which was a pos they got 1 neighborhood away from the apartment before it broke down. didnt take long for cops to find them. both are now serving time. the pizza hut store had delivery info and yes they lived at the address and phone they provided for delivery. dumb.

    what sickens me is the the state I am in prohibits taxi drivers and limousine drivers from carrying:barf:
  11. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Well-Known Member

    Arming delivery drivers a tossup for pizzerias
    Chains won't let workers carry guns, but local eateries say employees need protection from robbery hazard

    By Kevin O'Neal
    July 16, 2004


    Personal protection has become just as much a part of the pizza delivery business as pepperoni and tomato sauce.

    But even in a field that is among the nation's most dangerous, workers, managers and safety experts remain divided on whether guns provide additional protection against robberies and other forms of violence.

    Many national chains bar drivers from carrying weapons, saying firearms are too risky. Yet most local restaurants contacted by The Indianapolis Star will not stop a worker from taking a gun along if the employee can do so legally.

    Driver Norman McCormick, who works for a Papa John's franchise on the Southside of Indianapolis, does not carry a gun, but he realizes the risks in his line of work.

    "This job can be dangerous," said McCormick, "particularly if you work in an area that has high crime."

    Studies underscore that the danger drivers face is real. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics ranks delivery work more lethal than the roofing or construction trades, and safer only than careers in aviation, fishing, logging and steel-working.

    "My sense is it's getting worse," said Steve Coomes, editor of PizzaMarketplace. com, an industry Web site. "The violence of the crimes committed is increasing."

    The hazards came to the forefront in Indianapolis this summer when Pizza Hut driver Ronald B. Honeycutt shot a man who investigators say tried to rob him.

    Honeycutt was not charged in the Far-Eastside slaying, but he lost his job. Pizza Hut bars drivers from carrying guns.

    That incident was one of at least 33 robbery attempts against pizza delivery drivers in Marion County since January, according to figures from the Indianapolis Police Department and Marion County Sheriff's Department.

    A check showed many nationwide firms, such as Pizza Hut and Domino's Pizza, ban guns at work. Officials at Papa John's did not return calls for comment.

    A manager at a Northside Noble Roman's restaurant, Tessa Collins, said her shop does let drivers carry guns as long as they follow all gun laws.

    Officials at the chain's Indianapolis headquarters were unavailable to comment on the company's policy.

    No organization tracks how many pizza delivery drivers are armed, but locally owned restaurants seemed more accepting of gun-carrying drivers. Managers at several such shops reported no policies prohibiting drivers from having concealed handguns.

    At Piezanos Pizza on the Northwestside and at Aunt Polly's on the Eastside, managers said drivers who possess legal permits would be allowed to have their weapons on the job.

    Aunt Polly's manager Scott Webb said three of his 10 or so delivery drivers carry handguns.

    "If your guys have a gun permit, let them have it," said Robert Taylor, owner of Taylor Made Pizza in Downtown Indianapolis.

    He sometimes makes deliveries and says he carries a gun, although he has never had to use it. "A lot of times, that cell phone is more important than a gun."

    One industry expert said he believes the number of drivers with guns is relatively small, even when employers allow weapons.

    "I would bet that the average is lower than for the general populace," said J.W. Callahan, head of the Association of Pizza Delivery Drivers. "Many people obviously follow the rules at work. If the majority of drivers didn't follow the rules, there would be more dead pizza driver robbers."

    George Ralph, Domino's national director of safety and security, said he doesn't believe carrying guns is the answer.

    "Law enforcement will tell you that if a person is carrying a weapon, there's more likelihood that that weapon will be taken away from them and used against them," Ralph said. "There's a greater chance for a violent act to occur."

    Delivery work is getting more dangerous. U.S. Department of Labor statistics showed an increase in deaths among pizza and other delivery drivers, from 27 per 100,000 in 2000 to 38 per 100,000 in 2002, the most recent year for which numbers are available. That includes laundry route drivers, vending machine stockers and milk delivery drivers.

    Many of the fatalities are from traffic crashes, but an increasing share -- almost a quarter -- are a result of crime.

    "You're more likely to be robbed than doing anything else," said Callahan.

    So far, the veteran pizza deliveryman has 600 members interested in forming a drivers union.

    The fears about personal safety may be higher among pizza delivery drivers than among other types of delivery workers. Indianapolis floral drivers, for example, sometimes encounter trouble but say they have few concerns.

    "No risk at all," said Jack Hagan, who delivers for Andrews Florists' Downtown location. "There's nothing there."

    Part of the difference is that flowers are usually delivered during the day, while most pizza is delivered at night.

    Also, flower deliveries often go to such places as offices, hospitals and funeral homes, while pizzas go to houses and apartments.

    And those differences are among the reasons some local drivers believe they need guns to lessen the dangers of their jobs.

    "We haven't had that much trouble, but everyone knows I allow my guys to carry a gun," said Taylor. "Pizza Hut has trouble because they're not allowed to carry guns -- that's why they get picked on."

    Star reporter Sara Scavongelli contributed to this story.

    Call Star reporter Kevin O'Neal at (317) 444-2760.
  12. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Well-Known Member

    And the sidebar

    Hazardous careers

    Pizza delivery is one of the jobs included among drivers-sales workers, a field considered to be the fifth most dangerous line of work in the United States, thanks to the combination of traffic accidents and violent crime.
    Occupations with the highest fatality rates, 2002
    (per 100,000 employed)
    Timber cutters
    Pilots and navigators
    Structural metal workers
    Drivers-sales workers
    Electric power installers
    Farm occupations
    Farm construction laborers
    Truck drivers
    Bureau of Labor Statistics
  13. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Well-Known Member

    Which is why the Police don't carry guns. Hey, wait a second.....
  14. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Well-Known Member

    Speaking of maroons, what kind of maroon would even think to compare a pizza delivery person to a florist delivery person? Aside from the fact that ALL floral deliveries are made during the day while most pizza deliveries are made in the evening and late at night, there's this niggling little detail that just about all floral deliveries have already been paid for ... by the sender. Why would someone stick up a floral van when the driver has no money, honey?

  15. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

    armored car bank deliveries anyone. why do they need guns they are in a freakin armored car.

    sure the monetary ammount is different but it has not stopped pizza delivery people from being killed.

    wonder if the company has insurance of any kind on the employee's life. doubt it but companies have done it before and taken all the money leaving family left with jack.

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