Plain jane or Hot to Go HD - maybe carry, auto?

[blindjim]

I’m desiring a pistol now and am seeking ideas and options for a new automatic that runs 45 ACP.

Again, it must have a option for mounting a light, likely on a pick rail below the pipe/slide.

All but one of my previous pistol were revolvers. Ruger, SW & Colt. Mostly in 357 cal. I used the 1911 45 in the service for years though.

If you want to go with an automatic. And want 45 cal as the slug. And you might carry or might not carry at a later date. And are not a collector… investor… just an ordinary Joe who feels the need for occasionally added security at home or traveling, would the recommendations here be it’s best to go with a plain old journeyman gun… or drop a dime on something special?

Something ordinary but functional. Plain but reliable. Nothing flashy, but unquestionably accurate & simple.

I’m torn between a few choices presently. A Sig 1911 new… $900+, and a couple others… Colt Carry (Officer) … Rock Island Arm 1911… or SW M&P, or Sig P220.

Or????

Truth is I’ve no idea, other than I’d like an auto. I need a tact rail mounted light. I want 45 cal.

And I’d not want to drop over $500 or not much over it.

That’s what I know… please, tell me what I don’t know?

I’m hating like all get out to drop a ton here. I likely won’t buy another gun down the road either. Spending A Grand on a pistol, unless it makes breakfast in the morning, and does the dishes is going to hurt. A good bit.

I’m seeing this buy as a need, not an investment. Flashy is fine and all. Noteable is too. But I’ll likely not be trotting out my guns for folks to see just for conversation starters.

Fact is, I think guns are conversation stoppers.

Your thoughts please?

 

[beeenbag]

Glock 21 baby!

All business, no flash, 13+1 rounds of 45 acp on tap. Gen 3 and 4 comes with the rail and plenty of room on it. If your gonna carry some, get the glock 30, 10+1 rounds of 45 acp on tap with shorter grip and barrel for carry and you can use the 13 round mags in them for home defense. Also has rail.

Both can be had for around $550 new and under $500 used.

 

[Quoheleth]

If you want a light, you'll need a gun that has rails on it. That narrows down the list a little.

Rock Islands are out - they are rail-less.

1911s are available with rails - CDNN investments has the Taurus with a rail for $420. Download their catalog - they actually have several other options in the railed .45 pistol as well.

The Ruger 345 http://www.ruger.com/products/p345/index.html comes to mind as a rugged, reliable and affordable .45 platform. Glocks and Springfield XDs can be found for that price - if not NIB, they are available used.

In uber-budget line, HiPoint makes a butt-ugly but utterly reliable .45 for under $200.

Go to a gunshop and ask to handle and feel what is available. You have a few narrowing specifics, but you still have lots of choices available. Good luck & happy shopping!

Q

 

[dogtown tom]

Quoheleth:....Rock Islands are out - they are rail-less....

Not true, transferred a railed RIA 1911 last night:http://centerfiresystems.com/AC-RI1911-2011-NS.aspx

 

[JTQ]

I agree with the Ruger P345. It has a rail, is light in weight, and relatively slim.

S&W M&P is another option I'd consider.

 

[Effigy]

If you don't want to spend more than $500 or so, you'd probably want to go with something like a Glock 21, S&W M&P45, or XDm 45. The SIGs are out of that price range unless you buy used, which might be a good option if you can find the model you want. Personally I wouldn't want to buy a 1911 in that price range, unless it was a decent used gun; seems like you need to go a little higher end to get a reliable 1911.

Also keep in mind that a weapon light is typically going to cost in the $80-$300 range depending on what you have in mind.

 

[Beat Trash]

I would strongly suggest one of the S&W M&P's. I really like the mid size gun. A full size frame with a slightly shortened slide.

 

[Just One Shot]

+1 on the M&Ps, great gun for a little money. I have one beside me in .40 S&W that I added night sights a CT laser and an Apex Tactical hardened sear and striker block kit. This made the trigger smooth as silk and crisper than just about anything else I've ever shot, including all the 1911's that I've owned.

 

[Telekinesis]

I'd go with an XD or XDm 45. 13+1 capacity, supposedly has a grip angle similar to that of a 1911 (I don't have a 1911 so I'm just repeating what I've read elsewhere) has a rail and is reliable. It is decently concealable, but its still a double stack .45.

I would also recommend a Sig P220, but to stay in your price range, you'd need to buy used. It is possible to find good deals and good guns out there. I found a Sig 228 nearly unfired for $500 a few years ago.

 

[Quoheleth]

Dogtown Tom - I stand corrected. Thank you.

To be clear - that was oversignt/ignorance, not a bash @ RIAs. I have owned 3 Rock Islands - including the current Tactical - and find them affordable and reliable. If you want a 1911 platform, I recommend highly.

Q

 

[gearhead]

Everyone has made good suggestions. Here are a couple of other pistols to look at, based on my experience: Try an FNP-45. Rail, ambi controls, and it's one of the nicest-shooting .45ACP pistols out there. If that's out of your budget, take a look at the Taurus 24/7 models. Good striker-fired poly pistols for a relatively low price.

 

[Beached Yankee]

if the sunburn state is florida or anywhere near the coast rugers sr1911 is all stainless and can be found for 625.00 i also agree with the s&w m&p for a good weather proof 45

 

[blindjim]

yep... the Sunbrun State is surrounded by coastline. Nice idea. Stainless. My last Secuirty Six was stainless.


FNP? Thanks. Never heard of them but have now and I'm sure it is a good option. I appreciate it.



Thanks for the input so far

I believe we go with what we know, or have been comfortable with in our history (s). For me in autos, it was 1911.

A friend handed me a Comando or Officer 45 carry gun, and it fit like a glove… but I found its barrel length too short to my liking. Then, however, I could see far far better. And I chose revolvers instead from that day on.

I appreciate all the input here on various options so far…. Eg., Glock. Don’t know why, but I’m not a fan of Glock. Guess maybe I should become one though. I will take a peek at the 21 & 30 so thanks for that.

The SW M&P do look pretty nice. I’d bet too the feel is very good for me.

Love the Ruger notion of P345 too. many sincere thanks.

An obvious concern I must mention now is this as it has gone unsaid… With a light attached… and on… inside of 25-30 ft. likely inside of 20ft. !

Whatever gun brand or model, needs to be able to place inside a spot lit area, relative to the spots lowered position. I know some conpensation is required there. No problem. And it must be a spot, NOT A DOT, I’m aiming for A Streamlight TL x2. 200 lumens.

My current Leader light from Cheaper Than Dirt resting atop my 930 SPX is 200 Lu too…. and all I’ll need… daytime or night… pretty much.

Under 15 ft. in the daytime, I’d suspect no light is needed, it’s just nice to have. Doubtless were I to have to display in close quarters there’d be no finger on the light first.

So far from memory, back in 2000, only the full sized Desert Eagle auto was a truly big handful of gun for me… but I am sure I could put metal downrange with one hand reasonably well.

So if any gun idea here is a worry for accuracy under 35 ft just don’t post it please.

I’m overcoming a lot of prejudices here just opting for an automatic IMO. As I’ve never thought them better than six shooters. Except for carry and capacity.

Lastly, why the notes on mega round clips? Is that important?

Are autos still inaccurate as opposed to revolvers?

I must not be getting something here…. I’m figuring an instance for use likely will be under 25ft. Likely 10ft or less. Explain to me why then do I need 13 or 17 shots/rounds?

Is the custom in today’s society such that the victor is required to put their initials into the deceased with the other 10 or 14 rounds or more, they’ll have left over??

I guess I could run across a Martian, or a big ‘gator or a bear, maybe even an ill tempered armadillo that’s going through a divorce, and have to use the whole clip. But thereafter, I could just use my toe to do my initials on the ground next to it/them.

Even 30 rounds probably isn’t going to be sufficient to nail a galloping Armadillo though. Gosh! Can they move. Especially if they think they are being served a subpoena.

So the Glocks, Rocks, SW, Rugers, and Springers all are dead on accurate right out of the box?

They’ll all take 185 SJHP 45 ACP.. or just hard ball ammo?

I’m gonna tend to like a heavier gun too for less recoil. But I am a big fan of destroying as much tissue as can be done with each round fired. Hence the 45 ACP or hollow point 45 rd. for avoiding over penetration…. If there is such a thing these days.

Every suggestion is welcome, and sincerely well received. Thanks much

 

[blindjim]

PS.

for a very special... really accurate and well, purdy gun, I'd go $650, but it would have to be real special. Grip. Action. Accuracy. Esthetic.

 

[Telekinesis]

As far as accuracy goes, I've seen some VERY accurate .357 mag revolvers and I don't think you can completely replicate that with a semi auto. That said, I have seen some shooters consistently ring a 12" gong at 100 yards with a semi auto pistol. I would say that at the ranges we're talking about here, all of the modern combat pistols are going to be acceptably accurate. They will all be able to feed JHPs too. If you find one that won't, its an exception rather than the rule.

As far as ammo capacity, its just added assurance. Say there are multiple people trying to break into your house (or insert legitimate SD scenario here), or you miss a few rounds while you and the assailant are both moving (don't expect everyone to stand still while being shot at) or what if one round doesn't stop the threat? I know, a .45 to the pinky will send the guy flying 20' across the room....but what if the shooting takes place in real life?

All joking aside, I read of an incident a few years ago where some guy attacking a police officer took 7 (!) rounds of .45 JHP to the chest and STILL managed to continue fighting! If you ask me, I'll take all the extra ammo I can get.

 

[blindjim]

Telekinesis

Sorry… I couldn’t resist. Love six shooters and had a few 357s over the years. Shot well with them back then… but today ain’t back then.

I dig the idea, that the faster I can put mo metal into the air the better for me. I’m realistic about it all too. My only shot today will be at center mass. I’m no longer capable of picking out a button, sinus cavity, dimple, or ear hole anymore.



"....I have seen some shooters consistently ring a 12" gong at 100 yards with a semi auto pistol. I would say that at the ranges we're talking about here, all of the modern combat pistols are going to be acceptably accurate. They will all be able to feed JHPs too. If you find one that won't, its an exception rather than the rule."



Very good to know. I was coming to that notion slowly, but it’s good to see it in print from a real owner though. Thanks.

I’ll see what is what a bit more tomorrow as I check out another shop I’ve been wanting to visit He has a Sig 1911, a Colt carry, and some other’s. No Rugers though. There’s at least the opportunity to see how some fit too. That’ll help.

I’m also liking the idea of a midsized weapon lately. Due to the quite probable short range events, and the ability to conceal it better than a full size, or at least I’d think so.

 

[blindjim]

I handled a few guns today. In the end, I liked these two the best, in terms of how they fit… or weld to my hand.

The Ruger, P 345… single stack 8 rd 45 cal. w/Thumb safety $535 + tax, NIB.

Easily, the P 345 is the most secure grip allowing my forefinger and thumb to meet and all of my fingers to rest onto the grip handle. Me and my hand were very happy and secure as it sat in my grip.


Beretta PX4 Storm F model (?) 40 cal. $500 + tax

The Storm is almost as secure a feeling as the 345 but not quite, with my finger tip & Thumb but a bit away from each other up top, and all of them do rest well onto the grip handle in a non crowded way.

So my grip of the 345 is by far and away the most secure of all the ones I tried. No Question!!!!

I tried/held and racked, Springfield XD, SW M&P, Sig 1911, Colt Commander, a Walther PK was nice and took second place in the “how’ do they fit” test.

But the trigger pull, break, and the feel and process of the Action – slide – racking, of the Beretta? Easily IMHO way ahead of just about all I managed to dry test.

The Beretta also had a hammer vs a pin. Not sure which is what there. Both seem to be smooth enough.

I was easily able to pull the PX 4 hammer with my thumb.

Two different dealers.

One having the Ruger, the other having the Beretta, sure didn’t care for the idea of getting the same item in a different caliber though. The Beretta guy saying none in 45 were available via his distributor! Indicating no chance of getting a Storm in 45 ACP.

The Storm has my attention overall. It’s smooth action, build, feel, capacity, and I held it with the medium backstrap, so the small might just be the deal for me… really impressed me.

BUT… IT’S A 40, NOT A 45.

Would someone please convince me or enlighten me some more, on the vaules of a 40 cal vs. a 45 cal for limited carrys, and predominately home defense?

Just how big a deal is this? Or is it even a concern?

The numbers on each say a person is good to go with either round, and it’s looking to me more and more like merely a matter of preference.

The Storm can be had for $540 OTD. The Ruger is about $570 OTD, and has the safety.

Both are NIB.

I think the 345 might have a skosh more useable pick rail under it too, than the Storm.

Any thing I should as well think about before trotting back over to the Beretta dealer and getting the 40 cal Storm?

Or sticking with the better feeling 345 and eating the diff for more ergonomics and my choice in caliber?

Or look around for the same things online?

Where?

I’ve never done a gun online… and I hear you aren’t coming out any better after transfer fees, shipping, etc.,

What to do for these two, P 345 or PX4 Storm 40 cal?

 

[JTQ]

You may want to try Gallery of Guns. It may not be the best price, but you can compare to what you've already seen.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/

Using the Gun Genie, the Ruger P345 is about $100 less expensive than the Beretta PX4 in .45, at least in my Zip Code. Both models are available.

 

[Lonestar49]

Without doubt - Sig P220R full size or Carry

...

A pic is worth a thousand words and just over 1800 flawless rounds..


Sig P220R/45 - Center



Center -




That or the shorter slide/barrel with/same grip/mag load P220R/45 Carry

Luck,


Ls

 

[blindjim]

JTQ

Thanks much.

What’s a Gun Genie?

Apparently, I’m finding those higher priced than they should be joints while I’m trying to achieve this solution. Seems no matter where I go, it’ll be the highest priced spot around, or nearly..

Now each place too, so far, has been both a gun & accessory shop, PLUS a gun range.

Wonder if that matters?



LS

Thanks … grabbed one of those today too. Wasn’t terribly trilled with it’s feel.


I think I’ll go back over to the closest range, rent the 345 and a couple others and maybe a 40 too, and see how it feels when they bark.

And very likely, I’m going to try to find a PX4 Storm F in 45 ACP….

I’m thinking $535 & up, for the Beretta is high.. and it’s sincerely high for the P 345. remarks on YOUTUBE are saying under $400 for a P-345!!

The Beretta MSRP for the Storm full size in 45 is $650… at their website.

I’ll keep looking if that’s the tag I gotta pay.

BTW… how is the support with Beretta or Ruger?

 

[JTQ]

Gun Genie is at Gallery of Guns.

Select the manufacturer, model, caliber, put your Zip Code in, etc., you get the idea.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx

 

[savit260]

PS.

for a very special... really accurate and well, purdy gun, I'd go $650, but it would have to be real special. Grip. Action. Accuracy. Esthetic.

At $650 you're still in the Plain Jane, garden variety price bracket for .45's... even on the used market.

Some great guns in that price range though.. but nothing that I'd call real special.

Would someone please convince me or enlighten me some more, on the vaules of a 40 cal vs. a 45 cal for limited carrys, and predominately home defense?

The biggest virtue of the .40 S&W cartridge is that it's the largest calliber that will fit in a 9mm size platform. You'll notice the .45 acp guns run a bit larger than most 9mm or 40's.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

$500? Beretta PX4 in .45. Stoeger Cougar in .45 if you want all metal and lower price. For more, if you want a non 1911, then go after a HK45. $900+ though, so that's a bit much. FNP 45's are nice too, but they are freakin big.

 

[blindjim]

Thanks folks.

Especially for the note on the Beretta Cougar. I actually thought about that too.

Well, I'll call Beretta and Ruger service and see how they act with a prospective customer. That is always fun and exciting. Or time well wasted.

I believe for a change I'll take a new set of ideas to supplant some older ones. I'm starting to see this "PX4 V 345" or, 'either - or' as a win win situation.

Go 40... or Go 45. Both will surely do the job.

Givven that, how it feels in my hand, it's price, and how it moves should dictate which one to get. Either case isn't then, a "lesser of the two evils", but more a walnut vs pecans affair.

If I can get a Beretta PX4 F in 45 cal... that's the one I'll do. If not, the choice is harder, but very good no matter the selection. Price then will likely decide it for me.

Somehow, in my mind or hand or both, the PX4 just feels more like a quailty piece than does the P 345 despite the better fit of the 345 within my digits.


soooo.... if anyone knows of a bona fide resource for cheap PX4 F's in 45 cal. I'd sure like to know it too.

 

[blindjim]

is it true... the exact same model weapon, outfitted identically as one other yet both in different calibers, can/does cost a lot more money??

The pricing desparity I'm seeing in the PX4 Storm F in 45 vs 40 is over a hundred dollars... or nearly... around my area.

So in fact, comparing the P-345 to the PX 4 F in 40 cal was deceptive. Two diff cals. in the same slug type, there arises a sizable diff!

Too bad. I really liked that Beretta Storm full sized goobersmoocher.

Oil well. We'll see what can be done with the P345 now.... and a light for it.

Thanks severely to each and every poster here. I'd not have known about the Ruiger autos had I not asked for help to those with mo' speariance than myself.

Now for a light!