1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Please be Careful

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by jungle, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. jungle

    jungle Well-Known Member

    I have now witnessed two negligent discharges in two gunshops, and I don't spend very much time in gunshops.

    The first was a counter person demonstrating the qualities of a magazine disconnect on his loaded Smith 639 9mm, I was standing a few feet away when the salesman fired the pistol between the faces of the customer and himself. I foolishly had my back turned and had to look down and check for hits. Fortunately the round went into a wall.

    Yesterday was a real crowd pleaser, a person behind the counter was for some reason handling his loaded FN SCAR rifle, from ten feet away I watched him cycle the bolt and then pull the trigger. This is a very nice old line shop with almost every type of fine firearm in stock. Most of the staff are very knowledgeable.
    There were about ten people in the shop and the line of the muzzle was just a foot behind two and pointed in the general direction of three at the far end of the shop. The only thing that saved lives was at the last second he elevated the muzzle towards the ceiling.

    The blast and concussion in that small space was terrific, I found myself in a low crouch with my eyes just over the counter before I could fully understand what had happened.

    Please follow the four rules at all times:

    The rules of gun safety follow from this mindset. There are many variations, and one of them is the Four Rules introduced by Colonel Jeff Cooper, which are:

    1.All guns are always loaded.
    2.Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3.Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4.Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
    —Jeff Cooper
  2. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

    Holy crap!

    Remind me to NEVER go gun shopping in Florida!

    Around here, it's a general policy to never have a firearm and ammo on the counter at the same time.
    It's not a law or anything, but I think it's a reasonable idea.
  3. jungle

    jungle Well-Known Member

    Please note that in both cases the firearms were owned and operated by the staff. Normally this is the only time you will see any loaded guns in any shop.
  4. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

    That's pretty darn scary man!
    And "Staff" of ALL people should know better than that!
    Can you just imagine the law suits flying if someone had been hit?
    The costs could have been enough to completely bankrupt and close down a mom & pop shop for sure!
  5. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Well-Known Member

    These kinds of things happen EVERYWHERE, not just in Florida. Also, they can happen to ANYONE, not just the uninformed or ignorant. Even the most highly trained, safest, most careful person can have a negligent discharge.

    It's important to ALWAYS follow the 4 rules, no matter who you are or where you're from.
  6. jungle

    jungle Well-Known Member

    The lesson here is that you must of course be very aware of your own muzzle, but it is equally important to be very aware of all those around you, needless to say this incident was a good learning experience for a few people. The lesson could have been far more costly. Many of us seem to need a wake up call now and then.

    Don't be that guy.

    I have been fired at by men shooting at me and others in the general area with the clear intent to produce bodily harm with a belt fed 12.7mm, I found that to be hilarious once under suitable cover, the NDs aren't funny.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  7. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

    I was just kidding about the "Florida" part.
    You're right.
    It can happen ANYWHERE!
    No doubt about that.
  8. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member


    It's very good to hear you were not hurt!
  9. JSpear

    JSpear Well-Known Member

    Wow!! I'm glad no one got hurt! And thanks for posting, it's always a good idea to refresh the mind on the four rules.
  10. toivo

    toivo Well-Known Member

    This might sound harsh, but I believe that both those individuals should lose their jobs.

    I can completely understand why someone who works in a gun shop would be carrying a loaded handgun. I can't imagine why he would handle it unless he was defending himself or someone else.

    I can't imagine why someone had a loaded rifle in a gun shop. Makes no sense to me.

    Just my opinion.
  11. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Well-Known Member

    My first AR-15 managed to somehow lock itself shut a couple weeks after I got it. I was out at the range shooting, and the bolt locked closed on a live round, couldn't move it for anything - I later found out that a tiny chip of brass from the previously fired casing was the culprit - no idea how it happened, but the gunsmith replaced my extractor springs and I never had the problem again.

    I had to take the rifle into the gun shop that day - with a round chambered. You never know what the reason may be. The magazine shouldn't have been in the rifle, however, even if it was locked up in some manner as my rifle was.
  12. Lonestar49

    Lonestar49 Well-Known Member


    Got to say, this, as to a mag disconnect, "safety feature", is on the same level as a decocker, not supposed to fire on a live chambered round but - they can fail, as noted in any owner/operator manual..

    Go by the rules and o/o manuals "cautions" and apply the common sense they try and in-view/ingrain

    Glad you lived thru both

  13. toivo

    toivo Well-Known Member

    OK, that makes sense. I hadn't thought of that.
  14. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

    Maybe I'm a lil confused as to what you are saying?
    Why didn't you fire the round before you took it to the gun shop?
    Or am I missing something?
    Is it bad to do that?
    Was it locked TOTALLY closed, or just kinda?
  15. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

    I wouldn't ever go back to those shops, and I would tell all people I have influence over never to go to them, unless I heard that both employees were fired on the spot.
  16. HOOfan_1

    HOOfan_1 Well-Known Member

    Or with jungle...he is bad luck. :what:

    Staff or not...they shouldn't be handling loaded firearms. Keep the loaded firearms holstered or otherwise secured unless there is a legitimate call do use them. They shouldn't be pointing other than at a 100% safe direction on "unloaded" ones either.
  17. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

  18. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Well-Known Member

    At that point in time I had no practical experience with AR-15 rifles. In the Army, where I learned the platform initially, they teach you how to clean it and how to shoot it as well as how to clear simple malfunctions - this malfunction wasn't simple. I didn't fire the round because the gun acted oddly - firing the round if there had been a stuck bullet could have destroyed the barrel or injured me. This malfunction also occurred several years ago. I've since acquired skill enough to handle the problem myself if it ever happens with my current rifle.

    The details of the malfunction, however, aren't important. The point is that circumstances aren't black and white - there may be a valid reason for a given individual to bring a loaded rifle into a gun shop - you have no way of knowing the reason. It isn't WRONG to bring a loaded weapon into a gun shop as long as you're handling it safely with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction - it IS WRONG to handle a loaded firearm in an unsafe and improper manner no matter where you are.
  19. B!ngo

    B!ngo Well-Known Member

    Funny, that's what I was thinking as well. Jungle should either play the lottery or crawl in to bed and assume the fetal position for a good long time.
    But re the two gunshop 'perps', dismissal seems quite appropriate. I don't want to sound like old 'Mitt', but firing people who foolishly risk the lives of others, and as a function of their employment should know better, seems perfectly reasonable.
    The second case was even more remarkable than the first. Waving around a loaded SCAR in a gunshop? Why? Why was it even loaded? And if there was trouble with the weapon, take it out back to the sand bucket or something.
    BTW OP, glad you left all in one piece.
  20. BSA1

    BSA1 Well-Known Member

    No comments about what to do about the four shooters that went downrange without making sure the line was cold?

Share This Page