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Police shooting, people going nuts over dead idiot.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by yesit'sloaded, Nov 13, 2007.

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  1. yesit'sloaded

    yesit'sloaded Well-Known Member

    NEW YORK (CNN) -- A young man carrying what turned out to be a hairbrush died Monday night in a hail of bullets fired by New York police.

    Khiel Coppin's brother Joel Coppin spoke briefly with reporters saying, "We want justice."

    Authorities were responding to a 9-1-1 call his mother made about a "family dispute with a gun," police said.

    In the background of the call, played at a news conference Tuesday, 18-year-old Khiel Coppin can be heard saying, "I've got a gun, I've got a gun," New York Police Department Deputy Commissioner Paul Browne told CNN.

    The teen put an object under his shirt and told his mother around the time she phoned 9-1-1 that he was going to say he had a gun, said New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly.

    The teen told her, " 'I'm prepared to die,' " Kelly told reporters.

    When authorities arrived at the Bedford-Stuyvesant apartment, the teenager had something stuffed under his shirt and several times showed a knife to police. "Shoot me, kill me," he shouted, according to Kelly. "Come get me. I have a gun. Let's do this."

    Coppin ignored repeated commands to stop and get on the ground. Witnesses said the teen appeared to be holding an object underneath his shirt and pointed it at the officers. Coppin continued to approach officers, as they ordered him to stop, said Kelly.
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    Twenty shots were fired; Coppin was struck eight times, Kelly said.

    "This was a terrible tragedy for Khiel's family, no doubt about it," said Kelly. But the commissioner stressed that officers reasonably believed they were about to receive fire.

    Kelly said the teen's mother reported he had not taken his anti-depressant and anti-psychotic medication.

    Police have not recovered a gun and do not believe that Coppin was armed, Kelly said.

    A reporter asked Kelly if it's possible the young man was goading police to shoot him, a phenomenon known commonly in law enforcement circles as suicide-by-cop.

    "That's certainly a possibility," said Kelly.

    "The boy didn't have no gun, he had a brush on him," said Andre Wildman, a neighbor who told CNN that he saw the shooting. Video Listen to mother's 911 call ยป

    Another neighbor, Wayne Holder, said police should be required to see a weapon before opening fire on a suspect. "At least see a gun before you start to discharge it," Holder said. Police "don't even have to see it, [if] they think you got one, you're going to get shot."

    Coppin was taken to a hospital where he was declared dead. An autopsy is scheduled for Tuesday, the medical examiner's office said.

    The Rev. Al Sharpton's National Action Network is expected to hold a news conference on Tuesday about the shooting.

    Police said they were investigating whether Coppin had a history of mental illness and whether his mother had tried to have him hospitalized earlier Monday.

    The shooting came a year after unarmed groom Sean Bell, 23, was killed hours before his wedding in a shooting involving New York police. In 1999, unarmed African immigrant Amadou Diallo, 22, died when police in the Bronx shot him 19 times.

    Bystander Dyshawn Gibson described Monday's shooting to CNN affiliate WABC-TV. "He dropped the brush," Gibson said. "He put his hands up. Police just started firing."

    Coppin was seen pacing around the apartment prior to the shooting, according to an initial police statement issued Monday night.

    "He began screaming from the window at his mother and the police," the police statement said. "At some point, the male climbed out of the window and began crossing the sidewalk toward the police."

    That's when police began firing, a police spokesman said.


    This is on CNN right now, people arguing abut shooting another unarmed black man:rolleyes: Since when can you point a dark object at cops and not expect 20 rounds. Ok the argument is getting hilarious. CNN.
  2. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Well-Known Member

    40% hit ratio? Time for the NYPD to hit the range.
  3. sierrabravo45

    sierrabravo45 Well-Known Member

    I would be going nuts too, if the police had that bad of accuracy.

    Besides that it seems like a justified shooting.
  4. yesit'sloaded

    yesit'sloaded Well-Known Member

    I can see cops in NY being called racist trigger happy thugs in a day or two. First they attack gun owners leaving them nothing but the police in the way of protection (and they are not even supposed to protect you), and now they are going after the cops for defending themselves against someone that wants to get shot I guess.
  5. .cheese.

    .cheese. Well-Known Member

    I was surprised the article mentioned suicide-by-police.

    I'd say that's what it looks like though.

    poor kid must have been really unhappy with life. :( it's sad really
  6. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Well-Known Member

    Bad things that happen are ALWAYS somebody else's fault.
  7. yesit'sloaded

    yesit'sloaded Well-Known Member

    I'm just amazed at the instant hate at the LEOs involved like they were out to shoot black people. 20 rounds? I think thats a low number considering the number of officers involved. I was expecting around 60.
  8. bluestarlizzard

    bluestarlizzard Well-Known Member

    +1 .cheese.
    it appears to be suicide by cop. secondly, there are guns that are perfectly capible of fireing from under cover (like a t-shirt). if someone is standing in front of me screaming he's got a gun pointed at me and wants to shoot me, i'm gonna shoot first. i'll feel bad after i find out that there was no gun, but at least i'd be alive to feel bad.
  9. Mot45acp

    Mot45acp Well-Known Member

    I saw Sharpton's name and quit reading. For an anti racist, he will turn it into a race issue. For him it is job security.

    My prayers go out to the poor young man's family and to the LEOs involved. I believe they were justified, but it will not be easy for them.
  10. Ready2Defend

    Ready2Defend Well-Known Member

    The shoot seems legit, but I agree with SnakeEyes, only 8 hits with 20 shots? Where did the other 12 go? That is a lot of lead flying. I hope rule 4 is consciously practiced by police in these incidents. Since no one else is mentioned hurt it probably was practiced here.

    There was a suicide by cop in Tulsa about 10-15 years ago. The decedent came out of where he was holed up with a long gun (later found to be unloaded) in a stalking mode approaching an officer taking cover. He was dropped with one shot by the designated sniper. 100% hit ratio.

    In the NY situation maybe their wasn't time to put in place an appropriate SWAT team. It just seems to me that if a lot of shots are fired then there is panic going on. At least some level of panic. Unpredictable events will suddenly occur that will make the average person panic. But if there is time to institute proper STRATEGY then TACTICS might not have to degenerate to least common denominator human fight or flight reaction.
  11. 2TransAms

    2TransAms Well-Known Member

    Black,white,purple or green,color makes no difference here. If he acted as stated in the article,he got what he had coming.
    Here's an idea...keep your hands where the police can see them.
  12. Crunker1337

    Crunker1337 Well-Known Member

    Clearly suicide by cop. I don't think the police acted unjustly at all, they gave repeated warnings and only used firearms when they felt that their own lives were in danger. The fact that it wasn't a firearm is not relevant, the kid threatened cops and the cops had very good reason to believe he was armed with a gun.

    It's always sad to see someone die, but I don't think the police were wrong to use firearms.
  13. copper4262

    copper4262 Well-Known Member

    again another tradgedy that will be turned around and somehow blame police and guns for all that is wrong in the world - as sad of a life as that boy might have been living he had no right to do the things he was doing and no right to make those cops kill him - from what i have heard of it that is what he did - very sad thing -

    I have been in that same type of situation several times before. Never with someone that young and I thank God I have never had to pull the trigger. But i have come close. Speaking from experience its a horrible horrible situation - Until your involved in something like that you have no idea how crazy it can get. But hey - cops should be used to that right? The do that sort of thing all the time - run into crazy situations. Sadly nothing can prepare you for actually having to make that descision - and the worst of it is people who sit back and critisize and speculate about what you did wrong and what you should have done different. Yeah - its sad there isn't a higher hit ratio in LEO shootings. In fact the stats show that cops miss alot more then they hit. Let me ask you this - you can stand in front of your paper target all day long and proudly proclaim you would hit a man from seven feet with all of your bullets - but would you??? I doubt it - Yeah - i would love to hit the range more and would love to see my fellow officers hit the range more as well - sadly budget and time constraints dont allow it - so we make do with what we have - even then - there is only soo much you can train and plan for - Ask yourself what you honestly think you would do in that same situation - Would you really do anything different??

    My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and the cops - they both have a long road ahead of them.

  14. Bazooka Joe71

    Bazooka Joe71 Well-Known Member

    This is just absolutely brilliant logic. Just priceless.
    Wonder what insightful words of wisdom Ol' Al will have to help line his pockets this time...He'll turn anything into a race issue to get some camera time...Anything.

    Ya know so what if the police couldn't see his hands, so what if this kid had an object under his shirt that could very well have been a gun, so what if he was screaming "I have a gun, I have a gun!" The real issue is that police officers gunned down a black man and we need justice! Everyone one of these cops fearing for their lives were OBVIOUSLY racist.
  15. Wolfgang2000

    Wolfgang2000 Well-Known Member

    Copper, Amen Brother, Amen.
  16. CannonFodder

    CannonFodder Well-Known Member

    Actually, last I remember from the previous incident like this one, a 40% hit ratio is a marked improvement!
  17. don

    don Well-Known Member

    Another candidate for the Darwin award
  18. .cheese.

    .cheese. Well-Known Member

    actually, I'd bet the kid knew exactly what he was doing.

    That's what makes it so sad.

    and if I may be so bold, could we, as members of THR, try to not to use the whole "darwin award" thing? I know sometimes some of that stuff is funny, but don't you guys think it sends the wrong message to those outside of the forum who might come in and read a few threads? They're going to get the impression we're a bunch of cold, callous, entirely insensitive individuals who laugh at death. That is not a good image to associate with those of us who carry guns every day whether it be for a job or for our own potential self-defense. It just sends the wrong message and doesn't seem "high road"... with all due respect.
  19. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Well-Known Member

    I see that this person subscribes to the 4 year old's defense strategy of "If you can't see it, it can't hurt you."

    I don't care who you are or where, if you tell police that you have a weapon and advance on them.....THEY WILL SHOOT YOU.

    You could be the Vice President in Mayberry and Andy Griffith will take Barney's gun, load it, and shoot you dead.

    And it's not just police. If you claim you have a weapon and come at me, I will shoot you.

    Unfortunately, the NYPD has a history of questionable shootings and racist behavior(Not all of the NYPD, but there have been many incidents) so it is unlikely they will get the benefit of the doubt in many people's view.
  20. JasonblkZ06

    JasonblkZ06 Active Member

    "The boy didn't have no gun," said Andre Wildman,"

    That means he did have a gun? Case solved.

    Al Sharpton - you ain't no reverend. I mean you aren't a reverend.

    Where's Jesse Jackson? Clearly the guns involved did this on their own. It will be interesting to see if any of the police were black. Oh wait, we know the answer to that already. Al is about to get another large under the table check. Non profit my ass!
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