1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Precision multigun

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by taliv, Feb 24, 2013.


pick the option that is closest to your opinion

Poll closed Mar 26, 2013.
  1. I like the idea, but gear is a problem

    16 vote(s)
  2. I like the idea, and gear is not a problem

    18 vote(s)
  3. I'd rather stick to short range only

    0 vote(s)
  4. I just don't like it

    3 vote(s)
  5. don't know or don't care, just get me past this poll

    3 vote(s)
  1. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    So I've been working on this evolution for a while. Basically, I love sniper matches and hate shotguns, which inevitably takes me to 3gun with a precision rifle, carbine and pistol.

    I've been directing the sniper matches for a couple years, and directed 3gun matches prior to that. I'm not quite ready to put on the first match, but I plan to late this year, and a couple of my friends who run matches have expressed a lot of interest in doing the same.

    So anyway, I thought I would try to generate a little interest here with some gratuitous gear photos.

    Most of the rules are similar to USPSA 3gun, except a major departure is that like the sniper matches, you carry all your gear throughout the match. i.e. none of the baby strollers, wagons etc common found in 3gun. In other words, managing your gear is as much a part of the match as shooting the guns.


    Here's an example. 4 pistol mags (60rnd), 2 rifle mags (20rnd), 3 carbine mags (90 rnd). (not counting any that start in the guns)

    A backpack is generally needed to carry most of the precision rifle gear (LRF, kestrel, etc), and food, water etc for the day. This type of backpack with the scabbard also makes it easy to manage two rifles without trying to sling them both at the same time, since you can stick one in the backpack.



    I'm pretty sure there's more than enough interest to fill up matches that mix IDPA/USPSA style pistol/carbine with precision rifle targets from 300-900 yards, but I'd like to see the interest spread to become a little more mainstream.

    of course the numbers will never come close to IDPA or 3gun as the long range precision work isn't a very common skill and can be pretty expensive in hardware and ammo.

    added dimensions will probably include team matches and hiking/camping in multi-day matches.

    I am curious how many people on THR have the equipment (not necessarily high end race guns, just basics are fine) and have it sorted out well enough you could carry 3 guns a couple miles and shoot stages with at least 2 of them at a time.
  2. esheato

    esheato Well-Known Member

    I would love, LOVE to do this, and I have 2/3 of the guns. SV pistol, carbine and 338, although I'd prefer a 6.5mm short action.
  3. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    cool! but uhh, yeah, if you mean 338LM that would be pretty rough on most of the targetry. A 6.5 or 6mm short action would be ideal. 308win would work fine too. Looks like you have an excuse to start putting one together!
  4. chaser_2332

    chaser_2332 Well-Known Member

    i like it tom, i was hoping when you guys starts PMG that you would eventually hold some type of match like this........even tho the shotty is my favorite part of 3 gun, i could drop it for the 6cm.
  5. esheato

    esheato Well-Known Member

    Actually, right now a job would help me start putting one together...already have the parts list scribbled somewhere.

    I think the team event that Zak put on a year or two ago would be amazingly fun.
  6. chaser_2332

    chaser_2332 Well-Known Member

    I do think somting like this should be more outlaw 3gun rules, no powerfactors or anything like that. Also IMHO stray away from idpa as far as you can, that comp to me is just boring with TOO many rules of engagment.
  7. theriflespeaks1863

    theriflespeaks1863 Well-Known Member

    This NEEDS to happen. If I were in a better financial situation, this would be my excuse to brush up on long-range skills and start acquiring the necessary tools. I've always thought something like this would make for a great competitive sport.
  8. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    The main problem I see is that most of the competitors in IDPA/USPSA couldn't carry everything they need for a pistol only match around all day, much less the extra two rifles and gear.

    IDPA even leans toward helping those out that are in less than perfect health/shape by limiting stage movement between shooting positions to 10 yards.

    At the 3 gun matches I shoot it's generally carts or shoot with the RO/SO group and just drive the truck from stage to stage.

    Your idea sounds like a great way to test not only marksmanship but over all health, even make it more interesting to relay start it and just keep the clock running like an Olympic biathlon.
  9. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    definitely will be outlaw rules. no slicing pie or reloading behind cover type rules.

    given the nature of the long range matches, and shooting in the natural terrain as opposed to on a square high power range, it necessarily involves a good bit of walking between stages over uneven ground, so if you get winded moving from the couch to the fridge for a beer and cheezypoofs, you have at least 6 months to fix that before the match :)

    stage movement on the clock could be a couple hundred yards. (actually i think 200 yards has been the longest so far in one of my matches)
  10. esheato

    esheato Well-Known Member

    I do. Short action is on my list though. Been a SH forum member for a year or two. My wallet hates that forum. ;)

    Could you elaborate on your kit? What do you carry, where and why? Pack brand and size, etc?

    This was the match I was referring to earlier: Thunder Beast Team Challenge

    Match duration: 3 days
    9 stages total
    3 long (hour+) field stages involving significant movement while engaging carbine and rifle targets
    Additional assault-style stages with carbine targets, movement of 100-400 yards
    Two night stages for carbine, rifle
    Rugged desert terrain with natural hazards
    Locate, range, and engage targets under strict time constraints
    Significant movement while on the clock
    Local altitude of 4000'
    Carry gear all used during the courses of fire
    Carbine targets: contact distance to 500 yards
    Rifle targets: generally 150-800 yards
    Unknown, various, and non-standard target sizes
    Almost all targetry will be reactive armor steel plate
    Round count (minimums): Long-range rifle: approx 110, primary carbine 220, secondary carbine (rifle shooter), 120. These account for average number of rounds required by an average good team to engage all targets. If you may need to shoot extra to make up for misses, bring more ammo.
    Cost: $585 per team.

    My comments:

    -3 days is a long time...maybe make it a whole weekend instead, and drop a few stages to facilitate it.
    -night stages? eeeek! How does one practice for this? It's hard enough to find a place to shoot in the dark...but locating a place to shoot LR in the dark is darn near impossible unless you own property.
    -cost is probably more than most can afford at that rate....would love to have it reduced and more frequent match schedule.

    Of course, finding property for something like this is probably the most difficult part of this.

    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  11. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    mine too!

    and yeah, zak's doing that every year, but he keeps scheduling it for times I can't make it. :p heard great reviews from several friends who went.

    sure... keep in mind i'm lefty, so things will appear backwards. My goal was to put together something that would work for everything I want to do, which makes it suboptimal for any particular thing
    1. general preparedness
    2. sniper matches (long gun only and occasionally long gun + pistol)
    3. carbine classes and matches (carbine only or carbine + pistol)
    4. precision multigun matches (all 3)

    So, for 2, I just run the backpack and belt rig, which gives me 2 rifle mags and a dump pouch, and 2 pistol mags and a pistol, and if I don't need the latter, the empty holster isn't really in my way.

    for 3, I just run the chest rig, which carries my AR mags and a pair of pistol mags, and I will usually wear the holster on a regular belt. I leave the backpack and molle belt at home.

    for 4, I can combine both and have everything I need. but i don't really need 4 pistol mags at once, so i can just leave two empty to save weight.

    the pack is an eberlestock x3 lo-drag. it's one of their cheaper packs and i reviewed it in this thread in some detail, though I have changed it quite a bit since that photo was taken. it's a great pack, but could be better www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=654789

    a couple tips i have learned from experience:
    - the shape of the lo-drag is nice because it's difficult/impossible to shoot a bolt gun prone while wearing a helmet and a large pack at the same time because the pack will prevent your head from moving backwards far enough to get into position
    - the order you put the stuff on is important. i usually do chest rig on bottom, then rifle sling, then backpack. that way i can dump the pack fast. if i need to dump the gun fast, i use the QD swivels, which isn't perfect but is faster than dumping the pack and then the gun.
    - it's easy to get stuff tangled up. i might try to go with slicker stuff. might even start cutting some of the molle off. i also switched earpro because my old earpro kept getting caught in the backpack straps/rifle sling.
  12. esheato

    esheato Well-Known Member

    Interesting. Seems like you've put a lot of thought into your setup. I like the multi-layered approach with the belt, chest rig and pack. You can mix and match dependent on your needs.

    I must admit, I've spent the last hour and a half eyeballing gear at SKD, Eberlestock, Kifaru and others. One thing I can't seem to get past is most packs are large and heavy. How much gear are you really carrying? Five pounds of bag, before filling it, seems like it could be cut down significantly.

    Lessons learned are always appreciated. Those things are priceless to us new guys.

    BTW, I'm a lefty too. Everything looks jussst fine to me. ;)
  13. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Staff Member

    Here are the first two I was involved in putting on
    The second of those was an individual match with 3 guns: long-range rifle, carbine, and pistol, and yes you had to carry all 3 on some stages.

    We've evolved the concept quite a ways since then. This year we made a "light" version of our 24-Hour Sniper Adventure Challenge event called the "Sprint Class" which knocks out the crushing 30+ mile land nav but keeps the challenges.
  14. GI_Jared

    GI_Jared Well-Known Member

    I could finally use the chest rig that I acquired from a mud hut in the middle of no where.
  15. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    Might help the video game disabled but IDPA more so than USPSA (but both have them) have the folks that somehow got old before they had the time, money or free time to play gun games. 6 months or even another few years won't help them much.

    No big deal just a slight shift in demographic from your average IDPA shooter.
  16. Hoser

    Hoser Moderator

    Im in.

    I have shot the Thunderbeast Team Challenge both years so far and am signed up again for this years match.
  17. browningguy

    browningguy Well-Known Member

    I think it will be difficult to mainstream this type of match. Anyone not in superb physical condition really can't compete in this. However I was able to shoot a 3 gun match this past weekend. Even though I'll never be able to win one due to my age and inability to run on my two bad knees I can finish about every stage without a problem.

    But for the limited market for this is sounds like a fun shoot.

    BADUNAME2 Well-Known Member

    That'd be an awesome time. I don't have the gear for it, but it would be awesome.
  19. Bobson

    Bobson Well-Known Member

    That's where I'm at. Sounds like an amazing event I'd love to participate in annually, just like the Thunderbeast Team Challenge. I'd be surprised if those with time and funds weren't tripping over themselves to sign up for these things. Problem I would expect is just finding fit shooters with both time and funds.

    Being a pre-law college student, this is more of an "I'll be looking for it in five years" kind of thing.
  20. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Staff Member

    We'll be competing with pointy sticks in 5 years.

Share This Page