a1abdj
Member
I surely hope that you don't negotiate on anything that you buy...after all, there is only one price....cash or credit...the price on the tag.
Price is MORE with a Credit Card? - No dice!
- Thread starter Rezin
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I surely hope that you don't negotiate on anything that you buy...after all, there is only one price....cash or credit...the price on the tag.
Well, I guess if you post a "cash price" that is illegal and deceptive according to some (stupid, intrusive govt. protecting CC company) laws. So just have one price. If someone wants to negotiate, fine. Negotiation isn't illegal. If that person negotiating has cash then the merchant can afford to go 3% lower then he otherwise could. He wouldn't be violating anything 'cause the posted price was for any payment method and now the customer wants a discount.
0luke1
Member
Keep in mind that the credit card company charges 3% on the total purchase. If the purchase is $100, that's $3. If the store's margin (profit) is 25%, then the credit card cost is 12%, not 3%. That's onerous.
Your taxes work the same way. A 6% sales tax is 6% on post income tax dollars. In NJ, it's quite easy to get into a 50% tax situation (federal, state, property tax, other misc. taxes) - which makes the 6% tax, in effect, a 12% tax.
Your taxes work the same way. A 6% sales tax is 6% on post income tax dollars. In NJ, it's quite easy to get into a 50% tax situation (federal, state, property tax, other misc. taxes) - which makes the 6% tax, in effect, a 12% tax.
My opinion...if the shop has the ability to take a CC, they obviously anticipated having the need to take them and possibly losing sales if they didn't have them (impulse buyers). They weren't forced to accept the cards in the first place. Well it's all part of business. They want the business but not the little expenses that go with it. I deal strictly in cash for any and all my gun sales. I understand both sides but hey, they want the CC sales, they eat the 3%. They knew the charge was there if they read the agreement they signed. After wards they try to get around it? 
Bad business practice IMO. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Would a shop rather have me buy no gun from them or buy a gun and use a CC? Make $0 or make $500 -3%? 
Next we'll see additional fees if we actually want to inspect the gun first to cover costs of the shop wiping the gun down afterwards.
Bad business practice IMO. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Would a shop rather have me buy no gun from them or buy a gun and use a CC? Make $0 or make $500 -3%? Next we'll see additional fees if we actually want to inspect the gun first to cover costs of the shop wiping the gun down afterwards.
Isn't it funny, people love to shop there but hate them for paying low wages?
It's mathematically impossible to have low prices and high wages.
Oh BTW I try to buy out of state. It saves me 7.5% sales tax plus 3% cash discount, but you have to add shipping to the total price to see if it's worth it. A lot of the time it is.
Aguila Blanca
Member
I raised the same issue here a few weeks ago and I was surprised to find that a huge majority of people responding took me to task fir suggesting that merchants should follow the rules. Apparently, those who can afford to pay cash for guns don't think those of us who have to use credit cards should be entitled to having the vendors play by the rules.
biere
Member
I pay cash for large purchases.
I also negotiate large purchases.
This topic gets covered several times a year. I personally think all the people complaining about high prices or increasing prices should consider what they are using to pay for things and realize that if using plastic they may actually be the cause of a 3 or 4% increase in the cost of an item.
It is rare to find a store that takes no plastic, but I will go there often if I find one since they are trying to avoid higher prices and hassle and keep their cost to customers as low as possable.
I also negotiate large purchases.
This topic gets covered several times a year. I personally think all the people complaining about high prices or increasing prices should consider what they are using to pay for things and realize that if using plastic they may actually be the cause of a 3 or 4% increase in the cost of an item.
It is rare to find a store that takes no plastic, but I will go there often if I find one since they are trying to avoid higher prices and hassle and keep their cost to customers as low as possable.
biere
Member
I raised the same issue here a few weeks ago and I was surprised to find that a huge majority of people responding took me to task fir suggesting that merchants should follow the rules. Apparently, those who can afford to pay cash for guns don't think those of us who have to use credit cards should be entitled to having the vendors play by the rules.
Above is a quote from hawkmoon.
It took me a bit to figure this post out so that is why I am posting twice.
If you are using a credit card to finance a purchase you can most likely get a small loan from a bank with a fixed interest rate and then go buy what you want with the cash. I admit credit cards do seem easier to get than a small loan from a bank, but that is how I would go about doing this.
As far as having the vendors play by the rules, around here more vendors do have one price listed.
But many vendors also tell you that they are willing to negotiate for a cash purchase as well. It is refreshing to have someone bring up the offer to negotiate instead of having to bring the idea up.
I really do not want to see a society where one price buys everything. Because we are then going to see everyone get the plastic monster that offers the best "cash back" offer.
Cars are negotiable. Buying a home is negotiable. Most everything is negotiable to some extent if it is expensive or you are buying in quantity.
One more comment about the idea of having to use plastic to buy a gun. If you can't afford to pay that gun purchase off when the bill comes in how much credit card interest are you paying on it? I don't want an answer, I am wondering what the cost of that gun would really be if financed for a few months on plastic.
I know a few people who never have cash on them, they might have change for a parking meter. I simply don't understand this concept either so perhaps I am just the end of those who believe cash is easier to use to buy stuff.
Above is a quote from hawkmoon.
It took me a bit to figure this post out so that is why I am posting twice.
If you are using a credit card to finance a purchase you can most likely get a small loan from a bank with a fixed interest rate and then go buy what you want with the cash. I admit credit cards do seem easier to get than a small loan from a bank, but that is how I would go about doing this.
As far as having the vendors play by the rules, around here more vendors do have one price listed.
But many vendors also tell you that they are willing to negotiate for a cash purchase as well. It is refreshing to have someone bring up the offer to negotiate instead of having to bring the idea up.
I really do not want to see a society where one price buys everything. Because we are then going to see everyone get the plastic monster that offers the best "cash back" offer.
Cars are negotiable. Buying a home is negotiable. Most everything is negotiable to some extent if it is expensive or you are buying in quantity.
One more comment about the idea of having to use plastic to buy a gun. If you can't afford to pay that gun purchase off when the bill comes in how much credit card interest are you paying on it? I don't want an answer, I am wondering what the cost of that gun would really be if financed for a few months on plastic.
I know a few people who never have cash on them, they might have change for a parking meter. I simply don't understand this concept either so perhaps I am just the end of those who believe cash is easier to use to buy stuff.
This perception is part of the problem. As was said earlier, a gun store is hardly making any profit at all on a gun sale. If the gun was $500, then they are making in between 10-25% max. Lets say 20%, =$100, -3% =$85. From this comes rent, utilities, payroll, advertising and purchase of new inventory. That example was generous because I don't think a lot of gunstores have a 20% markup. Most folks would complain about the ridiculously high prices at the example gunstore above and shop elsewhere. They also wouldn't care a bit when they buy a widget down the street and pay 100% markup.
Buying guns on the internet is swell too...only problem is what happens when the gunstores all go out of business due to a combination of low markup, high regulation and box store, internet competition? Who will do the transfers? Wal mart? I live in a major metro area and the nearest Wally World is a 30-40 minute drive away....and they don't sell pistolas. None of the box stores around here do.
If I open up my own store, I guess I'll post a price high enough to cover the 3%...too bad for the cash buyers unless they ask for a discount. It's silly people get mad over something transparent in other stores that costs them 3% every day. Like a chance to save $$$ using cash is a bad thing.
Furthermore, the fact that there are actually laws about this really makes me mad
. Why is it illegal to tell customers about the fee and price differently? Oh, we don't want the stupid buying public to be too educated about the REAL costs of debt,
so they incur lots more of it. Gotta make Citibank rich.
This should simply be a contractual agreement between retailers and CC companies. No need for .gov regulation. It hurts the consumer. Think about this, if there were no laws protecting the CC companies and the stautus quo, more companies would offer to charge less (maybe .5-1.5%) to get the business. More customers would be aware of the issue and the combination of forces would drive these fees down. If anything, Government should be protecting retailers not CC companies. Retailing is the fastest growing sector of the economy and consumer debt is a huge problem. It doesn't bother me CC companies charge a high fee, it bothers me the government specifically protects this fee.
. Why is it illegal to tell customers about the fee and price differently? Oh, we don't want the stupid buying public to be too educated about the REAL costs of debt,so they incur lots more of it. Gotta make Citibank rich. This should simply be a contractual agreement between retailers and CC companies. No need for .gov regulation. It hurts the consumer. Think about this, if there were no laws protecting the CC companies and the stautus quo, more companies would offer to charge less (maybe .5-1.5%) to get the business. More customers would be aware of the issue and the combination of forces would drive these fees down. If anything, Government should be protecting retailers not CC companies. Retailing is the fastest growing sector of the economy and consumer debt is a huge problem. It doesn't bother me CC companies charge a high fee, it bothers me the government specifically protects this fee.
hotpig
Member
Beren said:
As soon as I have the time I will remove that option from my web store.
308win
Member
If one shops around one can get CC processing for approx. 1.8-1.9% (or less depending on volume) plus $.20 per transaction and some other misc. monthly fees. This makes the APR infinite since cash is immediate and checks if local are next business day as a rule.0luke1 said:
Also, Visa, MC, and AMEX don't process your card transactions (at least for smaller accounts) an intermediary does the processing and uses your money for a couple of days before crediting your account in addition to the fees. Our CC business is approximately 1/3 of our daily business and we would probably lose 60+% of this business if we didn't accept them. Fortunately we carry many lines with protected territories so we can factor CC costs into our price point and the cash/check payer subsidises the CC payer. Fair? maybe not but I am not eating it if I have a choice.
happyhooligan
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The way I look at it is that by having CC service set up, that you lure in a lot of impulse buyers. I've been guilty of this too. I saw a rifle, but since I didn't have the cash at the time, I used a CC to buy it on the spot. Sure I could have did layaway, but I wanted that rifle to be in my backseat and on the way to my house within 15 minutes.
newfalguy101
Member
Sometimes I just shake my head at these "rant" threads, other times I think to myself "What a bunch of whiners"
Mostly I just think:
If you dont like the price/pricing structure, GO SOMEWHERE else and save the whining for your dog at home.
Some people have absolutely no concept of business. Just cuz someplace takes plastic, you think they should eat the cost of taking the card??????????? really now, WHY?????????????????? They accept the things because YOU, the buyers wants them too, not because they relish the idea of one more bill to pay at months end.
So joe business man goes and offers YOU another option for paying and YOU dinglebarry customer WHINES when he tries to cover the extra expenses?????????????
Its a wonder any small businesses are still in business.
ESPECIALLY the gun biz where the majority of customers ( online anyway) all but insist that you not only sell it to at COST but also eat the shipping and THEN eat the cost of using the plastic, heck why not just throw in a ten-spot while at it, that way the busines will go under even quicker then you wont have to be bothered with squawking about him trying to run a succressful business AND support himself and or family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
C'mon guys dealers gotta eat also, jeez.
Mostly I just think:
If you dont like the price/pricing structure, GO SOMEWHERE else and save the whining for your dog at home.
Some people have absolutely no concept of business. Just cuz someplace takes plastic, you think they should eat the cost of taking the card??????????? really now, WHY?????????????????? They accept the things because YOU, the buyers wants them too, not because they relish the idea of one more bill to pay at months end.
So joe business man goes and offers YOU another option for paying and YOU dinglebarry customer WHINES when he tries to cover the extra expenses?????????????
Its a wonder any small businesses are still in business.
ESPECIALLY the gun biz where the majority of customers ( online anyway) all but insist that you not only sell it to at COST but also eat the shipping and THEN eat the cost of using the plastic, heck why not just throw in a ten-spot while at it, that way the busines will go under even quicker then you wont have to be bothered with squawking about him trying to run a succressful business AND support himself and or family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
C'mon guys dealers gotta eat also, jeez.
Sam
Member
Got so fed up with them I don't do cards at all.
Not worth my time and 3% does severely eat into the markup on a gun.
Margin is tight enough already. Probably 75% of my customers are not comfortable buying with a card anyway. For those that can't afford to buy without, I'll find them a way.
Sam
Not worth my time and 3% does severely eat into the markup on a gun.
Margin is tight enough already. Probably 75% of my customers are not comfortable buying with a card anyway. For those that can't afford to buy without, I'll find them a way.
Sam
Lone_Gunman
Member
Why are they not comfortable buying with a card?
I really wonder why so many merchants are so basicly dishonest as to refuse to obey the state laws, where applicable, and the credit card agreements they signed in the hopes of increasing sales.
Really makes me unwilling to do any business with any crook who uses illegal or non contract pricing policies.
Really makes me unwilling to do any business with any crook who uses illegal or non contract pricing policies.
Hawk
Member
Cash discount isn't the same thing as a surcharge.
Cash discount would be, as example, an Auction Arms listing that says "x% may be deducted from the winning bid for payment in cash".
It may NOT read (as so many do): "Credit cards accepted with x% surcharge". I personally can't remember ever seeing a "discount allowed" as opposed to an "add for credit card".
A cash discount in no way negates this portion of the merchant rules:
It isn't a trivial distinction, IMHO.
That said(c), I haven't noted any sellers stating that surcharges are in compliance with Visa merchant rules.
Ryder
Member
[QUOTEWhy are they not comfortable buying with a card?
][/QUOTE]
I write checks myself. I won't buy anything gun related on plastic. Why? Read the privacy disclaimer. These marketing geniuses sell your purchase history (they call it sharing) to anyone willing to pay for it. Except government who I am sure gets it for free. Purchases are filtered to kick out names and addresses for who bought any specific product. It is defacto gun registration.
][/QUOTE]
I write checks myself. I won't buy anything gun related on plastic. Why? Read the privacy disclaimer. These marketing geniuses sell your purchase history (they call it sharing) to anyone willing to pay for it. Except government who I am sure gets it for free. Purchases are filtered to kick out names and addresses for who bought any specific product. It is defacto gun registration.
waterhouse
Member
Although after googling for a while (dual pricing, credit cards, Texas pricing laws) I still can't find any statute that says that this is illegal, I'm taking Drinks word for it until I find out otherwise. I still find HankB's post interesting that says that the State actually charges more for a credit card when paying property taxes. Since I don't wan't to break any laws, I have raised all of my prices 2.9%. The credit card customers are receiving the same pricing as yesterday, but the cash customers will get hurt because of this.
Lone_Gunman
Member
My gun store does not itemize what was sold on the credit card bill, so how does the credit card company know what I bought???
308win
Member
The CC company knows how much you spent (total), with whom (merchant ID), date and time of day, type of card used, clerk ID (if merchant uses this feature), transaction ID (basically a serial number), merchant location, debit or credit (if dual capable card). At least on our terminal type and CC processor the CC company has no information about merchandise or pricing details (price, discount or addon, tax). This information is only available from the card holder or merchant. Our CC agreements (Visa, MC, Discover) prohibit surcharges and allow minimums.Lone_Gunman said:
Lone_Gunman
Member
Ergo, there is no defacto registration with buying on credit card vis-a-vis cash.
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