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Question regarding SW model 14 for IDPA

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by sfsmedic, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. sfsmedic

    sfsmedic Active Member

    Hello everyone,

    I am a long time reader, lurker, first time poster and have a question about shooting IDPA with a S&W Model 14.

    I inhereted my fathers firearms not to long back and with them were some real pride and joys for me because they are what he taught me to shoot with. His Ruger single six and Marlin 39A mountie. Also was his Model 14 that I shot a couple times. My dad took care of his guns the best he knew how but made a mistake of putting a leather holster he didnt dry well into the safe with the model 14 and the model 14 has some minor rust on it in limited spots and some very limited pitting. This is cosmetic only, the gun functions fine however because of this I want to take it to my gunsmith for an overhaul. This got me thinking :evil:.

    I shoot IDPA in the CDP Sharpshooter class (I need to be bumped up, I bolo'd my classifier and will reclass a week from this Saturday). I have always admired the revo shooters and their ability to reload the way they do. I would like to possibly set up the Model 14 for IDPA. I need a lot of advice on this one as I dont know much about the revo world and I see it as something that would be a great challenge to get even half as good as some of the guys I see shoot this class. Challenge means fun to me not frustration!

    I know currently my gun is illegal because its barrel is too long, one thing about the revos is the grip is very akward to me because of being used to shooting 1911's and a Sig for duty carry for work so that would be something I want to address. I have no idea if SSR or ESR would be my target goal at this point so advice there would be good. I dont know which reloading devices are better than others, no clue how to do a proper reload for competition so I am going to start researching that on youtube (any other places to look would be good as well). Obviously the guys I shoot with at the club would have good advice as well however I dont usually get squaded with these guys so I rarely get to talk to them. I guess you could call us classist, lol.:)

    I look forward to your advice and input everyone.

    Oh and lastly I do reload, I own a Dillon SDB so that would be what I would do for this gun as well.
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    I don't know if I can recommend cutting down a classic Smith just to shoot IDPA. By the time you've paid to do that damage, you could have sent J&G or CDNN or someone about $250 and have a DAO 4" S&W 64 that would be perfect right out of the box.

    As it's .38 Special, you'll shoot in SSR division. You'll be using speedloaders, and the Safariland "Comp IIIs" are almost universally chosen as they are fast and easy.

    I personally use the "switch hands" reload as it is fast and positive:
    1) Left hand grips the gun from underneath with the middle and third finger of the left hand against the right side of the cylinder.
    2) Right thumb pushes the cylinder latch and rolls the gun right. (The left hand fingers will hold the cylinder still.)
    3) Left hand rolls the gun muzzle-up.
    4) Right hand releases gun and smacks the ejector rod.
    5) Right hand goes to the speedloaders -- on the belt at the right side, just in front of the holster -- while left hand rolls the gun forward, muzzle down.
    6) Right hand feeds full speedloader into cylinder and releases cartridges.
    7) Right hand reacquires firing grip while left thumb closes cylinder.
    8) Gun back up to line of sight while left hand finds support grip again.

    Next match, tell your Match Director that you want to shoot with those revolver guys. Most of us MD's will at least try to work that out for you and the wheelgunners will be so happy to have a new disciple, they'll give you all the advice you can stand! :)
  3. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Well-Known Member

    Agree with Sam.
    I had a Model 19 sawn off from 6" to 5" when that barrel length was allowed. When they reduced the maximum revolver barrel length to 4", I had it cut off again. Way too much trouble and expense; and a shame to do to a nice old K38.

    A police tradein is not expensive and you would have Dad's gun the way Dad used it.
  4. sfsmedic

    sfsmedic Active Member

    Thanks Sam,

    I seriously considered the issue with it being a classic SW and the only reason I considered it is because of the rust. My gunsmith only works on 1911's, and IPSC style guns and of course the K-frames so figured he would slap me upside the head if I took it to him and I was committing a sacriligious act (hes good that way). Are the Model 14s considered classic SW's? I wasnt sure, I have noticed in my little bit of interweb surfing that they are held in pretty high regard and therefore wouldnt want to ruin it.

    Ill talk to some of the guys and see if they care if I run it stock at the club level for awhile to get a feel for it to see if it would be something I want to pursue. Then if it is I can buy a different revo as suggested for that (dont tell the wife I said that lol). How about grips? The stock grips feel so slim and hard to wrap two hands around comfortably.

    I would still like to hear more opinions everyone, thanks.
  5. MrBorland

    MrBorland Moderator

    Yes, Model 14s are held in high regard. Whether it's sacrilegious to cut one down is subjective. More to Sam1911's point, though, is that you could spend the money on a used gun instead.

    Personally, I start IDPA revo in SSR. Before buying something, I'd ask around to see if any of your local IDPA shooters have an extra rig you could try. At our local matches, at least 2 of us always bring an extra rig.

    One of the issues with revolver grips is their clearance for speedloaders. Hogues tend to be thin and allow more clearance. I currently use Miculek grips (made by Hogue, I believe), and have no problem with speedloader clearance. However, I'm going to try Hogue rubber grips (after hacking off the finger grooves) to see if it helps control. Really, though, you may find it takes some experimenting with different grips to find the best for you. If speedloader clearance is an issue, they can be trimmed back where they need it.

    Sam1911 describes a standard "strong hand reload" and is very popular. A variation, though, is to get both hands doing something simultaneously if possible, so I differ from the above by combining steps 3/4, 5/6, 7/8 into single movements:

    3/4) Left (weak) hand rolls the gun muzzle-up, while simultaneously a) using the left thumb (not the right hand) to eject the empties and b) releasing the right (strong) hand from the gun to grab a speedloader near the base and pull it free of the holder.

    5/6) Left hand rotates the gun muzzle down while bringing the gun down to belt level, and the right hand simultaneously brings the speedloader to the cylinder and feeds the rounds. One one movement, then, gun and speedloader meet around belt level.

    7/8) Right hand rotates to the right to re-establish a grip. Importantly, the right thumb stays extended, so as it rotates with the rest of the hand, it sweeps the speedloader away if it didn't cleanly fall away. Once the grip is re-established, 3 things now happen simultaneously: the right hand begins raising the gun while the left hand moves to a position where it can re-establish it's grip. But notice that the cylinder's still open, so as the left hand is re-establishing it's grip, it pushes the cylinder closed with the heel of the thumb while the gun's being raised (i.e. there's no separate closing, then raising). Done right, the gun goes closeBANG, not close...raise...BANG.

    Here's a video of me doing my reload, but it ought to be slowed down to see all this detail. Since this video, I tend to keep the gun high to eject the empties rather than bring it down while I'm ejecting. You'll also note I started with an empty gun, so no empties fell. I recommend, though, practicing reloads with empties preloaded in the cylinder - otherwise, you can easily become habitually lazy with the ejector rod stroke, which will bite you during a match. Ask me how I know :rolleyes:


    BTW, one can also do a "weak hand reload", and here's a vid of a master:

  6. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Are you in Northern or Southern CA?

    You might also look into USPSA and ICORE revolver competition...you won't have to cut the barrel down.

    The originator of the Weaver Stance, which for years was associated with Combat Handgunning was Jack Weaver...who used to shoot a K38 (M14) against the 1911s.

    I've found the grips from Hogue very comfortable on the K-frame
  7. sfsmedic

    sfsmedic Active Member

    I am in Southern California.
  8. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Thanks...I'm guessing NorCal clubs won't help then.

    I'm pretty sure you have a local ICORE (International Confederation of Revolver Enthusiasts) has a club near you

  9. Old Guy

    Old Guy Well-Known Member

    Using the work Sig sounds cheapest.
  10. sfsmedic

    sfsmedic Active Member

    I already shoot a 1911 for IDPA as my auto I just wanted to possibly try a revo class. The sig is actually more expensive than the 1911 because it's chambered in .357Sig.

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