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Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by WinThePennant, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. WinThePennant

    WinThePennant Well-Known Member

    Right now, my main preference is for GLOCK pistols. Love my Glocks.

    But, Smith & Wesson is really making a case for dethroning Glock's King of the Hill status.

    They are making guns for LEOs, military, AND civilians. Glock seems to care less about the civilian market. No single stack 9mm.

    S&W. They make a single stack 9mm. They make a full-size .22LR for the M&P. They make a variety of choices (safety, no safety, etc.).

    And, by all rights, the M&P is now equal to the Glock in reliability. And, they are an American company making a great product -- HERE, in America.

    Also, throw in the fact that they make great rifles, too! The M&P rifles, by all measures, run great. And, they make them available in a variety of options and price points, too!

    Any reason why S&W won't be the KING gun maker in the years to come?

    TCBPATRIOT Well-Known Member

    I had 3 Glocks at one time. I sold 2 of them to finance my XDm. I was
    wcently bitten by the M&P bug when I shot my friends gun. I was impressed by ergonomics and trigger.
  3. psyopspec

    psyopspec Well-Known Member

    I'm not aware of any military units that have adopted the M&P. However, don't let that stop you if you find you prefer that line of pistols. Also, no rules saying you can't own both. :)

    As far as dethroning Glock by taking over more market share, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    I sincerely WISH that was the case. Unfortunately it really isn't. Not yet.

    As I posted elsewhere before:

  5. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Well-Known Member

    Eek! Sam, that is the first I had heard of recurring problems. I know every manufacturer puts out a lemon on occasion of course. Do you happen to know if it was more prevalent with certain cartridge/size model? I was thinking of getting an M&P 9c for carry. Really loved shooting the rental.

    Maybe I should wait until they roll out the Fourth Generation M&P, just to be safe. :)
  6. tarosean

    tarosean Well-Known Member

    Hmmmmm... You do realize they make these guns with cylinders that revolve too.. What are they called again? :)

    I do agree with this though...

    and Sam I think Gen4's issues are pretty well documented...

    I own a m&p45c however, I am not enamored by it...
  7. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    For what it may be worth, most of the guns I've heard of or seen with this issue were 9mm Pros.
  8. VoodooSan

    VoodooSan Well-Known Member

    I don't really get in to Glock vs. other gun debates. I own a G30SF 3rd gen that I love. Im not a fanboy tho. But I also like HK a lot and the M&P line. What I think is happening is Glock has been around a while. M&P is starting to prove itself more and more and gain a bigger following.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  9. Old Dog

    Old Dog Well-Known Member

    Sam1911, interesting how you quote one of your previous posts on the M&P and then, several posts later, note that the problems seem to occur mainly with the Pro line.

    We have several large LE agencies in my state (mine is one) that issue the M&P and to my knowledge, we're not seeing these problems, at least on the (allegedly) widespread basis that you claim. We have some folks that shoot a lot (perhaps not as much as some "upper-level competitor friends") but the problems are fairly minimal and the factory support has been excellent. Any fixes required are all relatively simple.

    The M&P is what it is, a competitively priced, exceptionally ergonomic, reliable, easy to shoot and reasonably accurate pistol. Some would argue the platform is far more ergonomic that the Glocks; I'd argue that the trigger is better and they're more accurate.
  10. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Hey, I don't even own one. I don't say you will have a problem, or that a police force issuing these guns would ever shoot them enough to notice this sort of issue.

    I do know one high-level competitor who is also a NJSP officer who quit his Glocks for a while to run all M&Ps, but then went back after a year or so citing issues he found too frustrating to continue to fight. But that's just one guy. Each of the guys I've shot with who've had these problems are just one guy experiencing issues. But as I know more than a few of these "just one guys" who've run into trouble when operating these guns in the manner that I would use them, that's enough to steer me toward other very good similar platforms.

    I won't tell you what you should do, though. Just sharing some observations.

    You are exactly right on most counts. They are very ergonomic, they are easy to shoot, and they are accurate. Whether they are "MORE" accurate than a Glock, generally speaking, I wouldn't venture to say.

    The two known reliability problems are deal killers for me because competitions are often won and lost on the basis of fractions of a second, so clearing even one failure to extract, or running into a few light-strike "Tap-Rack-Bangs" can actually ruin your whole day when your best competitor doesn't have to clear the same malfunctions. In "real life" that's probably not such a big deal.
  11. BILLG

    BILLG Well-Known Member

    Sam could you give us a few names?
  12. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Well-Known Member

  13. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    A few names of what?

    If you want me to post the names of individual competitors I shoot with ... I have to say I'm really not comfortable doing that. There's not much privacy in the world these days, but I'm not going to "out" my shooting buddies by name.

    It doesn't really inform the discussion anyway, unless you were planning to call them up and ask if they really did buy multiple M&Ps! :)
  14. Inebriated

    Inebriated Well-Known Member

    So this is essentially S&W vs. Glock, not M&P vs. Glock?

    As mentioned, no military has chosen the platform. I've yet to even hear of anyone in our own military using them, but then I could be wrong there. Also, Glock is very warm towards its civilian customers. Just go to Smyrna, GA for a day. The only reason I know of that is preventing a single-stack 9mm or .380 is import regulations. Is that the only reason? Maybe. They do have a plant in Smyrna, GA, but they are supposed to be export-only. But honestly, with the 26/27/33 out there, why would Glock bother making a pistol with 1/8" less thickness and half the capacity? Look how their 36 sells compared to their 30. I suspect it would be a similar situation with any other caliber.
  15. WinThePennant

    WinThePennant Well-Known Member

    Regarding military uses, please read:


  16. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Well-Known Member

    Yesterday afternoon I was at the range shooting the Glock G17 and S&W MP9. I have no preference between the two. I’ll allow that I have more experience with the Glock G17. Either pistol is satisfactory. As far as preference I’m neutral.

    The S&W trigger system was a nettlesome issue at first but with extended usage is a nonissue now.

    The OEM sights on both pistols were replaced with after market sets. The Glock G17 as a Warren plain black system and the S&W MP9 a Novak front night sight with a 10-8 U-Notch plain rear sight.
  17. montgomery381

    montgomery381 Well-Known Member

    It is really up to the user. Which ever one feels better. I have both a 17 and an M&P 9mm. They are both accurate and well made. And my Glock 17 was made in the USA. So which ever one strikes your fancy.
  18. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    This is interesting and the usual complaints from M&P9 owners are the gritty triggers, lack of distinct reset and so-so accuracy....granted a lot depends on the level of your comparison and what you find acceptable. I should admit that I really like the M&P line and the M&P9 is my platform of choice for competition...also that I have long owned a Glock G19.

    I got into the M&P line late, because I knew that the first ones introduced to market were really beta testing. To their credit S&W stepped right up to address problems...dropping magazines and deteriorating striker tips...and these issues are well in the past. They also addressed the sear stalling, by going with a larger sear plunger/spring.

    A larger issue was the lack of accuracy in the 9mm versions. The M&P was optimized for the .40 and the 9mm barrels were unlocking too soon...also the fit of the barrels left quite a bit to be desired (read Hilton Yam's blog for testing results)...and they use the same .40 extractor. The current barrels are fit much tighter to the breachface (comparable to StormLake barrels). They still use the extractor optimized for the .40, but the problem isn't widespread enough...except with competitors...to justify a production redesign

    The trigger of the M&P has long been a weak point of the design. The uptake is mostly affected by the contour and lack of polish of the striker block where it contacts the trigger bar. It's reset has always been indistinct and would even sometimes offer a false reset. This last has been addressed in the aftermarket by Apex Tactical Specialties with their RAM and the factory has followed with a better reset on the new Shield. Due to the action geometry, the M&P can be tuned finer than the Glock. I actually prefer my M&P9 equipped with the Apex Tactical FSS trigger modification to my 1911 build's trigger when shooting quickly.

    I'm not a great shooter, but I think I'm a bit more than capable of wringing a pistol out. My stock M&P9 took a lot of work to hold a 3" group at 5-7 yards. Installing the FSS immediately shrunk that to a dime sized group (.75"). These were shot outside, standing, using a two handed grip

    Having spent 28 years in LE, I realize that there are different definitions of acceptable triggers and accuracy. I'd say the stock M&P trigger would be acceptable to 80% of users
  19. snake_plisskin

    snake_plisskin Well-Known Member

    I was at the range today and decided to rent a glock 17 and see how it stacks up against my m&p9 and ruger kp89 in terms of accuracy. For these targets I shot 17 rounds out of each gun. Probably not stellar accuracy from what some people can do but I was pretty happy with it (the black circle is 6" in diameter). All 3 guns are stock and seemed pretty comparable but it looks like I shot the ruger the best today.

    Attached Files:

  20. pdosh

    pdosh Active Member

    I'm in the M&P camp. A couple of years ago I started shooting USPSA & IDPA at a couple of local clubs. I decided to go with a different platform than my SIG 226. I wanted to shoot Production class. IDPA puts the XD in a different class, so that leaves out XD. I also wanted to shoot cast bullets. What about a Glock? Buy the gun and a new barrel. But the finger grooves don't fit my hand very well. What about those stock sights? Lots of guys replace the stock plastic sights too.

    Pluses for the M&P, American company and made here. Don't need a new barrel, three different back straps to fit you're hand well. You can take the slide off without pulling the trigger. If you want a safety, you can get it. And I like the looks better too.

    So, I bought a M&P Pro in 40 S&W. My reason for 40 is because I can load major for Limited/limited 10, or download and shoot production, which is what I normally do. I was already set up to cast and reload 40. I bought the Pro because I was using it for competition, not carry.

    Well, since then I've bought a M&P 40c with CT laser grips, another plus. I like how they go on and come off. A M&P 22 and finally a M&P Shield in 9mm. Oh, and a few months ago I bought a little stock in the company too.

    I've been very pleased with Smith & Wesson on all counts. People rave about the trigger on the Shield over the normal M&P. Maybe it's because I've shot them enough, but really, my 40c has about as good a trigger as the Pro and they are both a little better than the Shield.

    But I will tell you, I have a friend that has a glock 19 and I shoot it very well.

    A plus for the Glock is, options for modifications. M&P hasn't caught up quite yet on that count. Glocks are good, but make mine a Smith.

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