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Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by WinThePennant, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Well-Known Member

    Shoot them both, and buy accordingly. My wife shot both, and actually shot the Glock a little better, but chose the M&P 9c because it was far more comfortable for her. We went to the range for a half hour yesterday, and she shot 130+ rounds - she stopped when she got tired of loading mags!

    And I just ordered a G26, to go with my G34, G30, and G21. They shoot better for me.

    I suspect that once you get through the initial beta testing all the major manufacturers seem to do but call first production run, the failure rate of Glock, S&W, Ruger, and XD all run about the same.
  2. Fred_G

    Fred_G Well-Known Member

    What does the Apex stuff do for the M&P, I have heard good things about it. I could get used to the M&P trigger, but a shorter trigger reset would sell me on it.
  3. Thaddeus Jones

    Thaddeus Jones Well-Known Member

    Glock. On trigger alone.

    No need to rebuild a brand new Glock, right out of the box, with Apex parts and Storm Lake barrels, just to make it useable. ;)
  4. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Well-Known Member

    Realize as well that Glock did a Henry Ford to the American handgun market in the 1980's. They produced a simple, reliable, durable, extremely uniform, and pretty inexpensive handgun, like the Model T. Then they marketed it to LE agencies like they were invading Italy. They overwhelmed the LE market, which gave them acceptance with the American public, and they became the dominant player in poly-framed handguns in America.

    Glock changed the American handgun market, and it took the rest of the manufacturers time to realize that the future had already happened. By then, Glock had extablished it's monarchy. They so dominated the market, and had such a large market share, that the only real change that could happen happened. Just as other car makers went to assemply lines, other gun makers went to their versions of Glocks. Ford lost market share when that happened, but still seems to be a major player. Same with Glock.

    The company that is first to successfully market a product gets the lion's share of the market initially. Others follow, and dilute the market. Some bring a better product, some a lower price, and some a more attractive marketing program.
  5. Warp

    Warp Well-Known Member

    Some of the people with ejection problems from recent Glocks (3rd and 4th gen) might disagree with that. The Apex extractor is known for a reason.

    Glock seems to have mucked with their winning formula. :(
  6. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    The rule of thumb is that the #1 company in any field will have 50% of the market, #2 will have 25% and the other companies fight over the rest.

    The thing is that to stay #1, the top company needs to continue to innovate... in marketingspeak: Zag when the industry Zigs...think Apple with their iPhone and iPad

    This is where Glock is now trailing...think interchangable backstraps. Then they have been slow in addressing issues with weapon mounted lights affecting feeding (Gen3; G22) and BTF (Gen 3/4; G17/19)
  7. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Well-Known Member

    Ignore the interwebz folklore. The Gen 4s solved the "doesn't feel right in my hand" problem. I've had 2 Gen 4 19s.... one first round of production and one last weekend. Both are the fastestest, steadiest guns I've shot. And I've shot a few. I'm sure there were some some ejection issues out there, but I tire if the internet warriors stating as fact.
  8. Warp

    Warp Well-Known Member

    There are a lot of ejection issues.

    Calling the people experiencing the problems names doesn't help anything in any way.

    Curious...how many rounds do you have through each of those Gen4 Glock 19s?
  9. Fred_G

    Fred_G Well-Known Member

    Ahh, OK, thanks for the info. I don't like Glock triggers either. Nothing wrong with a Glock if you like them. The joy of a free market...
  10. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    Well, APEX trigger replaced the hinged trigger with a lever-style trigger, and since I HATE the hinge, that was a big help. The machined parts reduced the spongyness in the pull and grittiness in the reset. The RAM made the reset that much easier to feel.

    Seriously, the difference is huge. I've heard that XD has the best trigger out of the barrel, but that Glocks is easiest to tune without buying parts. Personally, I'm happy with my M&P + Apex.
  11. Fred_G

    Fred_G Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info, I need to research this more. Was not aware it replaced the trigger as well. That might make it worth it right there. I don't like that hinged thing.
  12. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    There are different parts, I do not believe the trigger is part of the carry "kit" but it is available for purchase separately.
  13. Fred_G

    Fred_G Well-Known Member

    Thanks Skribs, I have not really looked into the Apex stuff too much, as $ is a little tight, and when I look at stuff, I tend to want it more, and then buy it...

  14. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    I hear that, Fred!
  15. 3twelves

    3twelves member

    The M&P is light years ahead of the glock.
  16. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Well-Known Member


    Probably 4 or 5 thousand through #1.... sold it in June. I put 300 through #2 yesterday...

    Here are the first 10 rounds ever shot through it ... right out of the box at 25 ft.

  17. mach1.3

    mach1.3 Well-Known Member

    I presently have a MP9c. I love this little gun. It shoots great is accurate and fits my hand well. I have small hands so I use the small backstrap.
    I've owned both the G26 and G27 both good guns but I prefer the MP9c.
    The 3.5# trigger on the G26 was maybe slightly better than the MP9c but
    I shoot more accurately with the hinged SW trigger. I am not a competitive shooter. I do however also love my G36 with the lighter trigger connector installed. Oh well, I have always rouletted around with my pistols---one week it's this one the next something else. The MP9c has stayed a favorite.
  18. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Well-Known Member

    I have well over 10,000 rounds through my M&P 9C and I love it. I've only had one malfunction and that was in the first 100 rounds or so. I have no idea what caused it but it has never happened again in the next 10,000 rounds. Its still looks and shoots like new after years of shooting and daily carry.
  19. gc70

    gc70 Well-Known Member

    We have had lots of M&Ps and Glocks in my immediate family (myself, my wife and my son). We have had both Glocks and M&Ps in .45, .40 and 9mm and in the compact, mid-size and full-size models.

    The only reliability issue we have had with either brand was from premature wear of mag releases on the earliest M&Ps, which was a well-known early production problem that was quickly corrected. In all fairness, the Glocks were probably better maintained because my son is a Glock armorer.

    All three of us prefer the ergonomics of the M&Ps. My wife and son say there is not a huge difference in ergonomics with the Glocks, although my wife really likes the Gen4 backstraps. For my part, Glocks just do not feel right in my hand. Strangely enough, that seems to have little impact on how well I shoot Glocks compared to M&Ps.

    While the Glocks and M&Ps are all good, I still prefer steel guns. :)
  20. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Well-Known Member

    Using both a S&W MP9 and Glock G17 @ 25yds (shooting pairs from standing) with a mixture of Winchester PDX1, Remington Golden Saber, and Speer Gold-Dot ammunition. The Winchester DDX1 ammunition was +P. From my view point there is little difference between the MP9 and G17. I simply don’t get into the grip angle/ ergonomics debates. Both pistols are functional and that’s important aspect to me.

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