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S&W M&P9 torture test – finally broken!

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Irfan, Dec 9, 2008.

  1. Irfan

    Irfan Well-Known Member

    Todd Green (a famous gun writer who has worked first for Beretta, than SIG and is working now for S&W as I understood) has been torture testing a M&P 9mm pistol for more than seven months, and finally after more than 60,000 rounds the pistol had its slide broken! I have to say not too bad, at least for a major part like slide, frame and barrel, but at the same time I cannot say it did better than Chuck Taylor's famous Glock 17. You can read about it here, all documented: http://pistol-training.com
    What do you think guys?
  2. DrewH

    DrewH Well-Known Member

    My only comment is that I have always been extremely suspicious that Chuck Taylor's G17 really lasted that long :)
  3. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Well-Known Member


  4. Marcus L.

    Marcus L. Well-Known Member

    Single pistol torture tests give you a glimpse of what the pistol is capable of, but one pistol out of thousands isn't enough to determine much of an opinion of the pistol design. The larger the sample you take, the more accurate the determination. This is why most LE or military organizations require that at least 5 pistols of each model be tested during a trial. If one fails, they all fail. This is what happened with the Department of the Army trials of 1982(Sig and Beretta passed), the FBI trials of 1993(Sig and Glock passed), the Department of Homeland Security trials of 2002(Sig and H&K passed), and the Department of Defense trials of 2005(only Sig passed).

    The S&W M&P has a lot going for it. DHS is supposed to have another pistol trial in 2009.....we'll see how the new M&P does in it.
  5. CZF

    CZF Well-Known Member

    His testing of the Glock included replacement of some small parts along the way.

    I might be wrong, but I think that the test should end when a part breaks.

    On the other hand. There are CZ75s out there that have over 100,000 trouble free rounds thru them.
  6. Irfan

    Irfan Well-Known Member

    "On the other hand. There are CZ75s out there that have over 100,000 trouble free rounds thru them. "

    CZF, do you have it all documented?
  7. Marcus L.

    Marcus L. Well-Known Member


    The FBI tested 5 CZs along with other competitors during the 1993 pistol trials. None of the CZ 75b pistols made it past the 15k round mark without breaking a major part. Pistols that passed the FBI trials were the Glock series and the Sig series. Ammunition used was full power NATO and +P. Later, in 2005 during the Department of Defense pistol trials the 5 CZ 75b pistols in the trial also did not make it to the 15k round mark. The only pistol that passed the DOD trials was the Sig.

    I've heard a number of internet stories on CZs being super durable and being the number one pistol in the world, but when confirmation of these stories is asked for......*crickets*. I know of a few former USSR satellite states that still use the CZ, but they also use Makarovs too. Not even the Czech police use the CZ 75 or P-01 anymore to a large extent. They now are transitioning to the Glock 9mm. I'm sure some of the heavier competition models have a lot of rounds through them....and they should. Most competition shooters don't use full power NATO or +P loads like you get in military or police trials and the pounding on the pistols is greatly reduced. However, most shooters I know of who have high round counts on their CZs have replaced the typical breaking parts on CZs several times.......trigger return springs, trigger bars, and extractors. Any of those parts breaking during a trial is considered a disabled weapon(which it is), and it fails.
  8. MarcusWendt

    MarcusWendt Well-Known Member

    I wasn't aware that Sig was the only one to passed all of the mentioned trials. Makes me feel good about my Sigs... like I actually needed another reason.

    60K? Not bad. I really like my M&Ps. I think it will be a long time before I hit 60K on either of them.
  9. ConstantineJ9

    ConstantineJ9 Well-Known Member

    I wanna see a test done on Ruger p series. Seems nobody want's to do it.
  10. DZL HOG

    DZL HOG Well-Known Member

    Todds a good guy and a great shot too, he attended a class I took a few months ago. I think the gun had around 55Krds at that time, and put almost 1k through it in the class.

    Theres a thread on m4carbine thats keeping track of what was a 50Krd test. He has had some small parts break also, trigger spring and ambi slide stop are the ones I remember. Neither of which completely stopped the gun from running. He also did routine stuff like replacing recoil springs after several thousands of rounds.

    S&W is determining whether or not the gun is safe to run with the crack in the bottom of the slide. Since the gun is only cleaned every 5Krds or so, he doesnt know exactly when it cracked.
  11. GregGry

    GregGry Well-Known Member

    I hear the lorcin passed all those tests..
  12. Killermonkey21

    Killermonkey21 Well-Known Member

    "I hear the lorcin passed all those tests.."

    My friend...there are half-truths, lies, and damn lies...I think that statement fits all three :p
  13. schmeky

    schmeky Well-Known Member

    60,000 rounds and the slide cracked, good grief, that's incredible. What's even nuttier is, this thing is STILL UNDER WARRANTY :what:.

    Sig rates their P-220 at 15,000 rounds, Beretta's about the same. I think this shows just how far polymer technology has come. M&P's are a winner.
  14. SDDL-UP

    SDDL-UP Well-Known Member

    How does one explain the CZ P-01 being NATO approved with a NSN after going through a 15,000 round test if a CZ can't last 15,000 rounds?
  15. armoredman

    armoredman Well-Known Member

    Czech Republic going to Glock? No, they use the PO1...where is your documentation?
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2008
  16. hags

    hags Well-Known Member

    I know others have already commented but come on, give it a rest already.

    What's really interesting is where the slide cracked. Right on the cut out. The article also states that the pistol is/was still functioning.

    Amazing, way to go S&W!
  17. CZF

    CZF Well-Known Member

    I don't think the Czech national SWAT team has went Glock.
    They are carrying SP01 Tacticals.

    As for ANY brand or model of firearm being tested.
    When a part breaks, the test should end, but some don't
    see it my way.

    BTW: The SAS wanted to adopt CZ75s as their pistols.
    but politics at the time swayed them to the P226 and P228.
  18. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Well-Known Member

    When I opened the link I was expecting a disabling or even catastrophic failure, not a little piece broken. My pistol may never see 60,000 rounds through it, but this is encouraging nonetheless.
  19. hags

    hags Well-Known Member

    Same here. I was expecting to see the slide in two pieces, not a little sliver.
  20. hags

    hags Well-Known Member


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