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scary little jaunt to safeway

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by KiltedClaymore, Sep 20, 2008.

  1. KiltedClaymore

    KiltedClaymore Well-Known Member

    to mods: this may belong in tactics or somewhere else, i dont know. feel free to move.

    now back to our regularly scheduled program...

    so i took a walk down to the safeway about a mile from my house to get an onion and some burger buns. it's getting close to sunset, but no bad vibes in the air so far. as im standing on the side of this major street here called Northern (more like a freeway than a street to non-phoenix folks) waiting to cross (yes, i admit i jaywalk, but it shaves 5-10 minutes off my route) and i see this guy kinda hanging out in the shade of a large dumpster near the the alley that goes behind the store. didnt look too threatening at the time, even though he raised both arms in the universal signal for "you got a problem?!" when he saw me. i kinda adjusted my path across the street to give the guy a wide berth, but he moved to intercept me! at this point i my warning signals are going nuts, so i opened the knife that rides in the change pocket of my jeans and slipped it into my vest pocket for quicker access (god forbid it ever goes that far). no idea if the dude saw me do that, i was attempting to not show i had it. anywho, guy calls out "hold up a second!" and to be polite, i did:banghead:. guy introduces himself and ends up making no sense. tells me he just got outta jail, talks about his kids, said he was a navy seal, ect. never asks me for money, he did want to shake my hand about 5 times though:uhoh:. saw he had some old track marks on the inside of his elbow:what:. i had the feeling he was sizing me up, but i played it nice and polite (even though my right hand never left my vest pocket) and we went our seperate ways without incident. shook me up though!:eek:
  2. TonyB

    TonyB Well-Known Member

    it's like the saying:be courteous,be polite,but have a plan to kill everyone in the room.the may have been casing you,glad it ended well.
  3. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Shake hands with that sort? None for me, thanks—and anyway, in situations of that sort, my right hand stays on my gun butt.

    Paranoid? Maybe so. Absolutely unwilling to get into wrestling matches with crazy types? Yep.
  4. Treo

    Treo member

    Did you shake his hand or allow him W/in arms length ?

    (Yes I did read the line about your right hand not leaving your pocket, but dude could have grabbed your left)

    I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to be rude to the guy, but given the way you say the interaction started, I don't see that you were obligated to be courteous.
  5. KiltedClaymore

    KiltedClaymore Well-Known Member

    im 17. no gun here. my hand didnt leave my knife though!

    i did shake his hand, but gripped it so i could *most likely* wrench my hand free. plus, i look/dress in a fairly agressive manner, so i can understand why he thought i "had a problem". he said (no im not inclined to belive strangers) he just wanted to make sure we were "cool" with each other.
  6. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Be brisk, but friendly - make eye contact all the while and keep moving. Sometimes it is had to follow through on all that though - our societal sensors have us attuned to a different wavelength so often that it's tough to maintain proper alertness. Overall, I think you did alright. Glad he either wasn't up to no good after all, or just decided that you weren't a good enough target to deal with - nobody needs that trouble.
  7. scrat

    scrat Well-Known Member

    When you both walk away safe without an altercation. Then id say you did a good thing.
  8. kingjoey

    kingjoey member

    I used to live at 19th and Northern, never had more problems than when I lived there. Crackheads, thugs, and illegals everywhere, seems that something like what you mentioned was happening every couple months, moved down to CG and haven't had any real problems down here yet. Its nice having actual police response to problems rather than waiting for Phoenix PD to send a "reporter with a badge" after the bad guys are gone. PPD is really keen on avoiding any real police work :scrutiny:
  9. KiltedClaymore

    KiltedClaymore Well-Known Member

    yea im on 35th and northern.
    cause they know we shoot back at criminals
  10. akodo

    akodo Well-Known Member

    Remember, just because some guy never graduated from third grade, that doesn't mean all the deep cave man parts of his brain have shut off. Just like the stereotypical dumb yokle always comes home with the deer, in this case the dumb yokles are the urban uneducated, and YOU are the prey.

    Remember, John Q badguy has probably been doing this for years, learning by trial and error, however slowly. He is probably pretty good at reading people, knowing who is a good target, even if it is just subconsious on his part.

    What he was saying didn't make any sense because he wasn't talking to convey information, but as a timeinvestment so he could size you up. This is no different than a hunter with a call making a small noise just so the prey stops and wonders 'what the heck was that? sounded like one of us...kinda...but out of cont..WHAM ARROW TO THE CHEST'

    He was most likely waiting for a lone person to mug. When he saw you, he though 'ahh easy prey! especially if I remain hidden'

    But luckily you saw him. Some people would not change paths after seeing him, either out of stupidity, guilt, or the belief that if you ignore it-it will go away (or possibly mistakenly beleiving that altering your path makes you seem weak, which it might, but it also screws with their plan)

    You spotted him and adjusted your path, but you were alone, so he went with plan B, where he would engage you inconversation and further size you up. Luckily he probably had that same tingling in the back of the neck that we all get, and probably read you as someone wiling to fight back, and with a concealed hand, probably armed. Criminals are going to notice these little details just as much as you notice his trackmarks.

    Because you had determined to not be easy prey he sensed it and didn't strike.

    Good outcome
  11. KiltedClaymore

    KiltedClaymore Well-Known Member

    even though this made me spray coke on my keyboard via my nose, its true.

    personaly, if they act nice, i play nice. if they want to get mean, i just get meaner than them. im a firm beliver in the idea of having the capability to be just as mean and tough (or meaner and tougher) than your foe.
  12. 06

    06 Well-Known Member

    You let him into your "circle"-a complete stranger-and then let him gain control of your hand. Seems dangerous and glad you walked away. I am not that friendly with strangers and don't mind them knowing it-especially when alone and vulnerable. A trained person can easily put you on the ground and defenseless if allowed to get close. Please be aware that some people are plain mean with no conscious or concern for your peace or your life. wc
  13. kingjoey

    kingjoey member

    Ah yes, another nice neighborhood. We used to hang out at O'Briens over there before it became a dive.
  14. akodo

    akodo Well-Known Member

    in general, yes, but in this case the guy was NOT acting nice.

    if someone fails to trigger your 'this guy may be trouble' alarm, sure shake his hand. If some guy DOES trigger your 'this guy may be trouble' alarm, then common courtesy rules are null and void.

    I'd rather have 10 cases of false positives on my 'bad guy radar' than 1 case of a failure to seperate resulting in me being robbed or worse
  15. davepool

    davepool Well-Known Member

    Phoenix has changed a lot, Northern from 19th to 35th used to be a pretty nice area.I live at the foot of the mountain where 15th ave dead ends north of Peoria, got a good line of sight on all the crack heads who live down the hill from me. I never walk in this neighborhood after dark without my G20.
  16. conw

    conw Well-Known Member

    You didn't do terribly, but you did get lucky.

    I had multiple encounters like that in my late teens. I was lucky too. But it was an eye-opener when I started realizing what was really going on.

    The perfect response:

    Keep walking.

    If he keeps talking say "Not interested."

    If he keeps following and it's an isolated area, if he's speeding up, say "Stop following me." That should get rid of this type of criminal mostly - you just need to sound like you know what the heck you're doing, what he's doing, and you aren't going to take it. He keeps following, you stop and square up to him and get ready to use some OC. Oh, carry OC spray.

    The hand shaking: he was probably high, and he was definitely seeing how "polite" you are...being polite in the fact of a strung out junkie who is clearly sizing you up is a sign of weakness.

    Not trying to bust your jewels here, but what were you gonna do with that knife if he grabbed ahold of you but he didn't have a weapon?
  17. KiltedClaymore

    KiltedClaymore Well-Known Member

    well, due to the fact im only 5'8 and he was around 6'1-6'2 with about 50-60 pounds of advantage over me, i would have stuck him. plain and simple. now, thats not me being macho or exhibiting bloodlust, thats just how i would have reacted. i've been in situations before when my fighting insticts took over my actions and thoughts, and it wasnt a pretty aftermath. i got harassed by three dudes one day after school, and one kept pushing me. he finaly gathers the cajones to take a swing at me, and my reactionary insticts took over from there. ened up busting one guys nose, and wrenching anothers shoulder outta socket when i tried to pin his arm so he couldnt punch me. that was without a weapon (but against people my own age/size, and i didnt get out of the scrape before taking some good hits to the head/stomach), so im pretty sure that if the junkie had taken it to physical force he would have gotten cut.

    i forgot to mention that the shoes i had on also were formidable weapons. getting kicked anywhere on your body by a Dr. Martin steel capped boot (the type that go 3/4 of the way up the calf) will make you howl (and think twice about wether or not you want to keep fighting the person wearing said boots). in fact, a well placed kick with that type of shoe to the knee or ankle can break bones to end the fight.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2008
  18. Mcuraddoc

    Mcuraddoc Member

    The sad thing is..I know that Safeway...Glad it worked out okay.
  19. KiltedClaymore

    KiltedClaymore Well-Known Member

    fun place at dusk isnt it?! :uhoh:
  20. PTK

    PTK Well-Known Member

    I generally do not allow strangers to touch me and immediately suspect pickpocket attempts or other illicit activities if contact is made.

    If approached with anything seeming even slightly out of the ordinary, I generally have one of my hands on the butt of one of my guns. Heck, most of the time I'm walking around I'm ready to draw (and my SO is ready to draw the other if I draw one)

    Basic idea is that if someone seems dangerous, I'll already be reacting to them. If they prove to be a threat, I am prepared to do what may be needed for myself and my loved ones to go home safely at the end of the day.

    In a nutshell - go to punch me in the face/attack me/mug me/pull a knife/et cetera, and you're getting a loud command to stop followed by a VERY loud noise and acute pain if there isn't immediate compliance.

    Side note; I've been told more than once that my idea of fighting isn't "fighting fairly". Good.

    (and yes, I realize I stated "generally this" and "generally that" quite a bit. Situations involving people are never static, never black/white, and never predictable.)

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