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Shoulder colapsed

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by kestak, May 21, 2009.

  1. kestak

    kestak Well-Known Member


    I messed up and I want to know if the solution would be safe.

    I am using a Lee hard cast press.

    I loaded 26x 308 rounds in new brass. 150 gr FMJ over 42.5 gr of Ramshot TAC. This is a light load.

    I use the Lee standard dies. I used the bullet seating/ crimping die. I messed up on the adjustment of the die: I lifted up the ramp, and screw the die until it touches the shell, then I adjusted the seating dept of the bullet.

    When I seated the bullet, it made some kind of pressure on the brass and the shoulder collapsed a little bit to the outside. Picture running an hair outside the shoulder just were the brass main body begins. This is a very bad drawing, but imagine this drawing is a cut of the brass vertically and the 2 dots are the material that collapsed and bulged.

    I I
    I I
    ./ \.
    | |
    | |

    I did a test and I ran the whole round in the sizer again, with no decapping pin and it fixed the issue. I am sure it already happened to you old timers. My question is: Is it safe to use that brass again or should I throw it away?

    Thank you
  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    As you figured out, there was too much crimp on some rounds, collasping the shoulder a bit.

    That brass is perfectly safe to reuse. As a matter of fact, if they will chamber, they are safe to shoot. If they are collasped too bad to chamber you will need to pull the bullts, dump the powder, and resize.

    Did you trim your brass so they would all be the same length? That will help immensly. It may just be as simple as needing to back off on the crimp a bit.

    Yes, reuse the brass. :)
  3. kestak

    kestak Well-Known Member


    Yes, the brass was trimmer. I just messed up adjusting the die. I adjusted it like a sizer/decapping die.

    I violated the rule #1 of reloading: When you reload, do not hurry anything, take all your time. I was impatient to reload those rounds because I wanted to go ASAP zero another rifle at the range.... :banghead:

    Thank you
  4. 243winxb

    243winxb Well-Known Member

    You run the loaded rounds into the Full Length Sizing Die? With a 308 win, most Flrs dies will not do that?? Without crushing the bullet thats all ready seated. What am i missing here??
  5. kestak

    kestak Well-Known Member


    243winxb, You got me puzzled....

    I removed the decapping pin, screw the die up to the shellholder, pulled back 1/2 turn, lubbed the case very well and ran the round through it like you normally do with an empty case.

    I took all the measurements and everything is ok. I even pulled a bullet and it measures and look very fine. I do that all the time with my 45ACP when they do not fit as loose as I want in my case gauge.

    Thank you
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator


    Tell me it ain't so.......

    Resizing any loaded ammo is not a good idea. You have the round surrounded by steel. In the unlikely event that it should fire, you would be looking straight at a bomb. It is a tiny chance, but the results are to bad to chance.

    Not to mention ruining the neck tension in your .45 ACP.
  7. kestak

    kestak Well-Known Member


    ok. let me explain my 45ACP issue. I already discussed it here and another forum:

    I load 230gr RN hard cast lead commercial bullets and 230 gr FMJ bullets. I NEVER had any issue with my XD, Taurus and other "polymer" guns.

    My wife wanted a nice 1911 gun and we bought a SIG Granite. Then I began to experience some hellish malfunctions. The worse one was the slide not going into battery. There was about 1/8 inch left for it to close. Usually, a tap at the back of the slide would do it, but it was annoying.

    After many many many experiences, I found out
    a) With most of the Hard cast RN the shoulder of the bullet was hitting the rifling. Shortening the round to get the crimp to the extreme edge solved the issue.
    b) I found out that the bullets :what: were bulging the cases sometimes and they were not chamberring correctly. The simplest solution was to run the round in the sizing die again with no decapping pin. I also ryn the round once again in the setting die because sometimes the "resizing" pull out a little bit the bullet.

    I am using the Dillon dies. I was told that the Lee Factory crimp die will solve my issue for the point b). I am still waiting for it because it is backorder since a few months.

    I want to add that I reload about 15 calibers and the only issue I have with my rounds is with that stinky SIG 1911...:banghead:

    Thank you
  8. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    I just don't feel comfortable sizing a loaded rifle round......I know it's not going to go off, I suppose, but I just don't feel comfortable with it.... :)
  9. kestak

    kestak Well-Known Member


    I was too, but I got the assurance of many people that was a LOOOOOOOOT less dangerous than those people resetting primers in commercial loads to improve accuracy. :what:

    That last one scares me a lot.

    Thank you
  10. 243winxb

    243winxb Well-Known Member

    Ok, that 1/2 turn makes a whole lot of difference. I am guessing the neck area of the loaded round did not come in contact with the FL die, only the body of the case.
  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Yea, that's scary too. Just on the outside chance... :)
  12. Remo-99

    Remo-99 Well-Known Member

    How would you remove a stuck round kestak?
    Chances are much higher of sticking a loaded round in a sizer die.

    Hacksawing the base off a case that has a LIVE primer and full powder charge, encased in a hardened steel die, would be more than a little nerve wracking, with heat/friction from cutting.
  13. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    I am completely mystified how you can re-size a loaded round without destroying the bullet in the process.

    By design, a FL die reduces the case mouth well under bullet diameter.
    Then the expander ball opens it back up to just under bullet diameter again for proper neck tension.

    There is simply no way a loaded round can be run into a FL sizing die without squeezing the bullet under size.
    The jacket may spring back a little, and even may measure near correct dia.

    But there is no way the lead core isn't then loose in the jacket, and the bullets accuracy ruined.

  14. lgbloader

    lgbloader Well-Known Member

    Preach it, RC!!!!


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