Sick and tired of Hornady's PTX, back to the Powderfunnel!

[Shrinkmd]

Thanks for the video recommendation. I will be watching those later tonight if work is not busy!

Yes, I do have the new inserts, marked with an "A" I believe (gotta pull and check) but back when this thread was new I mailed them all back to Hornady and they sent me the replacement, newer parts.

I will report back after watching the videos and fiddling with my machine.

 

[Walkalong]

I use the die sets regular expander in station two of my LNL and drop powder in station three. Many people like to expand and drop powder in station two, which gives them room for a lock out die in three, a seater in four, and a crimp die in five, but that is how I do it. I do not use a lock out die, I use my eyeball on the powder charge as I seat a bullet in station four, which is right in front of me on the LNL. I use home made "powder funnels" to guide the powder into the expanded case mouth.

 

[RealGun]

Whether the term "powder funnel" is correct or not, my inserts for the powder measure case activated system that direct powder into the case are cartridge, not caliber, specific.

I like to call them powder funnels because they funnel powder into the case.

Hornady lists them by diameter, neither caliber nor cartridge. However, as a matter of fact, diameters like .452, for example, are actually usable only on the .45 Colt case length. The insert is much shorter than .451 for .45 ACP. So, it's really hard to be pedantic on this question.

 

[higgite]

I drank the red kool aid when Hornady came out with their universal PTX powder through expanders and I bought them. All I've had is sticking when I raise the press arm, crushed cases (quite a few) in 357 magnum, and aggravation.

So last night I got fed up, found my trusty powder funnel from http://www.powderfunnels.com/products.html and put it back in......

Shrinkmd, if you don't mind me asking, why did you get the Hornady PTX if your old Powderfunnel was working for you? Is the PTX supposed to be somehow better? I don't have an LnL but I'm thinking of trying a Powderfunnel with my RCBS Uniflow mounted on my Pro 2000, so I'm curious why you wanted to change. Thanks.

 

[Blue68f100]

The 2 are not the same. The PTX is an expander for the body not just the mouth of the case. Expanding the body to the same size give you uniform neck tension.

 

[cfullgraf]

Hornady lists them by diameter, neither caliber nor cartridge.

My drop tubes are not made by Hornady and are cartridge specific.

 

[higgite]

The 2 are not the same. The PTX is an expander for the body not just the mouth of the case. Expanding the body to the same size give you uniform neck tension.

10-4. Thanks, Blue.

 

[RealGun]

My drop tubes are not made by Hornady and are cartridge specific.

The topic is clearly Hornady, so if one changes the context, that should be mentioned.

 

[GW Staar]

I heard of at least one user who replaced the Hornay PTX's with RCBS's new powder thru expanders. These items are nice. They allow more adjustment and they multi-expand like the Lyman "M" Dies do. Maybe it was Peter Eick? If so how hard is the conversion?
Lyman "M" Die:

RCBS expanders: @ Midway Site

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Yes, I did that. I have gone from Powerfunnels, to Hornady expanders now to RCBS. I actually am using my RCBS expanders in my Hornady dispenser assembly with an RCBS uniflow.

I know that sounds like heresy mixing parts of different vendors but it is the best of all worlds. The Hornady dispenser assembly has a lower stroke for the the expander so it can handle 380 auto better than the RCBS assembly with RCBS expanders.

How hard?

Easy, just drop them down the hornady assembly and then reset the lever arms.

Actually, I should point out that originally I was not using a powder expander system and used Lyman M dies for each caliber. Then I moved to the Powderfunnel etc.

 

[Shrinkmd]

Sounds great. I still need to watch those videos, but I am willing to add an RCBS expander to my next midway order.

Are you as satisfied with the RCBS ptx as you were with the Lyman M die setup? In a related thread, I was commenting how the 1050 combination of separate expansion and case belling made for a beautiful final product. I've never made rounds which were as clean and lube/lead smear free before. And I've had a few FTF due to gunk around the case mouth.

 

[dickttx]

Quote RealGun:
"Allow me to declare the obvious here...the powder drop is "universal", not the expander. Each caliber has its own Hornady insert. Just checking, because the powder funnel is a different animal and, as a cone shape, is simply adjusted differently for each caliber...same part. One would certainly have problems, if not changing expander inserts to the appropriate caliber's diameter.

The powder funnel is not good because it only flares and does not expand. Technically, I think one would need an expander station to supplement the powder funnel. Sure, one can stuff a bullet in there but risks swaging or crooked seating or fracturing a case at the mouth. The bullet, especially a soft one, is not an expander."

I am just attempting to set up my LnL AP powder measure for the first time. I have been using my Lee dies and Pro Auto Disk on the LnL while reloading 38 Super and 45 ACP for the past 15 months. I am going to add 9mm but the PAD would not adjust for the short 9mm.
Adding the PTX to the powder measure die allows me to keep my Lock-out die and crimp die. Several people recommended the powder funnel, but I questioned its use because it seemed from the description that it only belled the case. I was more concerned with expanding the case. I appreciate the explanation.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Regarding the ptx vs. the lyman M dies. The answer is no. The lyman M did a better job as you could control it more easily. The Uniflow forces you to have it set in certain angles because the levers interfere with the powder lockout die on the next station. The lyman did not have that issue.

If you can get the PTX adjusted just right, then the results are identical to the lyman M die. This is not always possible though. So like most things in reloading it is a bit of a compromise.

 

[Shrinkmd]

Hmm, interesting. As far as bumping into the next die, I use the Hornady Powder Cop, and usually try to rotate the powder measure so that the knob just misses the primer housing, so I can take the powder measure on and off without needing to remove the powder cop die first.

I do like the idea that the RCBS ptx can fully replicate the M die. Not that my accuracy has suffered, but then again I've never tested my creations out of a Ransom rest at 50yd to check. Certainly some of the FTF issues I've had should go away with neater rounds, not that my production up to now has been that bad. Usually, there are no big rings of lead all over the shell plate from shaving, but I now really appreciate the difference between just belling the case mouth and having case expansion be part of the deal.

 

[Muddydogs]

powderfunnels.....

hmmmm,
seems too good to be true.
Covers all calibers AND works perfectly with NO problems?

Anybody actually use these?

Yep I have one. After 600 38 rounds it developed a ridge where the case mouth stopped. To use it on another caliber I had to buff the expander part to get rid of the ridge, then it developed another ridge after loading 400 .40 cases. Switched to the Hornady PTX and find it does a much better job of expanding then the powder funnel.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Sounds like my experience. I agree a good idea but it did not work out in the end.

 

[Shrinkmd]

The Uniflow forces you to have it set in certain angles because the levers interfere with the powder lockout die on the next station. The lyman did not have that issue.

Before I order the parts from Midway, can you expand on that a bit? What would happen with the Hornady case activated powder drop? I plan on continuing to use my Hornady LNL measure and case activated parts, and only drop in the RCBS ptx part.

why did you get the Hornady PTX if your old Powderfunnel was working for you?

Other way around. I enthusiastically purchased anything with a red Hornady label on it, then had problems and switched to the powderfunnel.

On a happier note, I was carefully readjusting the right pawl, and I think I understand why I was having some hang ups on the expander. The PTX needs the pawl timing to be dead on to work correctly and not smash up the case mouths. I will fiddle more another day, but I created a perfect looking round of .40 which lacks any lead or lube smear, and the press wasn't getting "stuck" when I had to back the expander out of the case. I over-belled it, so I need to adjust a bit more, but I think it's the best looking .40 I've made on the Hornady in quite some time.

Time to watch the videos.

 

[Shrinkmd]

Success!!

I got the RCBS powder through expander, and after setting it up, it works like a charm. The powder measure does "slip" on some cases, where the measure lever will go up, then drop a little, then keep going up as the expander enters the case. But the bullets are sitting straight and happy, with a little belling to make it easier to pop them in. My powder drops have been consistent according to weights as well as watching my Powder Cop die, since I was worried that the slight up and down of the powder measure might cause a multiple charge.

The last problem was the Redding Competition Pro seater. I was still getting rings of lead shaved off my wadcutters, despite the bullet clearly seated INSIDE the case and completely straight (thank you RCBS). I dug out my old Hornady seater and put the wadcutter seater plug in. Voila, no more problems!

I shot Redding an email to see if they manufacture a wadcutter plug for their Comp Pro dies. But for now, we're in business. Thank you to everyone who helped me figure this out.

 

[RealGun]

When a PTX is sticking, a polishing job with fine emery cloth worked for me. So far, I haven't needed to revisit any of them. I think it's comparable to cases needing some lube or dies needing polishing to run smoothly. On my larger cases, especially .45 Colt, I have taken to spraying them with One Shot. I haven't done anything to the inside of the case mouths, but it wouldn't hurt to polish and spray the PTX, when changing over or after a long run.

 

[abq87120]

I use PTX's in my LnL AP without issues. Lee carbide dies. My setup is for a very light flare. I load Precision Delta bullets and these come with slightly rounded base shapes. I load 9mm, 357 Sig, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. It took a lot of tinkering to get the hang of the 357 Sigs but now they load just like all the rest.

I cannot begin to guess why you have problems. My PTX's were cutting a chunk out of some cases when I first started using them. But, that was corrected by adjusting the rotation of the shell holder on the stroke. It was an alignment problem between the case and the drop.

Dan in ABQ