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Sig arm brace -- important legal update

Discussion in 'Legal' started by kimberkid, Jul 10, 2014.

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  1. justice06rr

    justice06rr Well-Known Member

    It is not designed as a real stock (or SBR lower), nor was it meant to be a substitute for a real stock. It just happens to work well if properly configured. A few vendors now sell pistol tubes i.e. KAK tube which adds length to the SB15.

    If you like your SBR lower with a standard stock, great.

    But not everyone wants to go through the hassle with the ATF/NFA route, nor do we all want the government to have knowledge (and registration) of the firearms we own. And many law-abiding gun owners feel that the NFA laws are bogus. Somehow a 14.5"-barreled AR15 is much more dangerous than a standard 16" M4????

    Anyway, here is my 10.5" pistol build with the same LOP compared to my current AR build (which will be a 16" Midlength). Both shoulder just the same.

  2. Cooldill

    Cooldill Well-Known Member

    It has for ARs.

    I think it's very neat, I've always wanted a short AR with about a 10 inch bbl but never wanted to deal with all the NFA stuff.
  3. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Well-Known Member

    SB-15 works great and I put one each on a BCM 11.5" upper and a parts build up with a DD 10.5" barrel,both run great.I used the KAK Industry Super SIG SB-15 dedicated pistol buffer tube.The whole NFA thing is really a joke for SBR/SBS/AOW,Suppressors,etc.
  4. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Well-Known Member

    If you don't aready have some NFA stuff then maybe, but for $70 more than the cost of the brace you will have the stamp and won't have to worry about the legal status of the brace.

    OTOH there is the advantage of not having to ask for permission to cross state lines with an NFA item.

    How does the brace impact those states with "assault weapon" bans? Since its a pistol can you own one in a restrictive state like CA? Does it circumvent the rules because it isn't a rifle?
  5. wally

    wally Well-Known Member

    Actually its ~$70 + ~$60 for the stock more to go the NFA route.
  6. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Well-Known Member

    I don't follow. The brace sells for around $130 and the stamp is $200. Are you adding the cost of a regular stock?
  7. Vodoun da Vinci

    Vodoun da Vinci Well-Known Member

    To the original question, YES, I had no interest in the whole SBR deal because of the state I live in (Illinois) and the extra "hoops" involved in getting a tax stamp, getting permission to transport across state lines, etc. In Illinois, I'd have to get a C&R FFL, and a tax stamp and then I'd have to get permission every year as my training range is in Iowa. Way too much hoop jumping for me. I'm primarily interested in 9mm MP5 format guns...I'll have an AR-15 eventually but I'm fine with a 16" barrel.

    So, I really had no intention of having an SBR and then the BATF rules that the brace is OK to be fired from the shoulder - It's not a stock and I was skeptical. Then I shot an MP5 pistol with a brace and in 9mm it's *WAY* better than shooting it in pistol form. I agree it's not quite what I want as if I had my druthers I'd druther have a folding stock but that's not gonna happen.

    So, yeah, I'm in the "SBR" want but it'll be a pistol with Sig brace and that'll work out fine for me. It's not much cheaper but it is competitive price wise albeit a bit more expensive. I went from "I don't want an SBR'd MP5" to "I *got* to get me one of these!" on an MP5K pistol with Sig brace.

    No tax stamp, no permission to transport, no C&R FFL hoops.

  8. wally

    wally Well-Known Member

  9. kimberkid

    kimberkid Well-Known Member

    VooDoo ... You can make it fold if you want, Atlantic is selling them with a folded/hinge ... I did this on my PAP M85 with a hinge & adapter for the tube to screw into I got from ACE Rifle Stocks ...

  10. Vodoun da Vinci

    Vodoun da Vinci Well-Known Member

    I should have emphasized stock....I'm aware that we can have folding braces and that they are available (but I seriously thank you for the heads up - it's the thought that counts! :) ) in various folding configs now. My personal choice is a full on stock and the brace, while I think it's an awesome idea and works pretty dang well as a pseudo stock, is not quite "perfect" in that role.

    It's a compromise for me but it's better than no "device" at all on the butt end of an MP5 and for that purpose fills the need 90%. I personally feel that the ATF ruling that braces are OK for the shoulder is one step away from removing the SBR from the NFA list but I think that is years away.

    Until that time the brace will do in place of a stock on those firearms I prefer in an SBR configuration.

  11. Hacker15E

    Hacker15E Well-Known Member

    Let's not forget that that are a bunch of military folks who are moving state-to-state every couple of years, without much choice of which states they're being moved to.

    That makes it nearly impossible for those people to own NFA firearms.

    The brace suddenly now allows those same people to own SBR-like firearms.
  12. kimberkid

    kimberkid Well-Known Member

    That's kind of what I'm doing from now on, however there are some guns like my V-51 pistol that needs a stock and is one I'm still going to SBR ... However my C-93 pistol and PTR-32 will be fine in a arm brace until they do away with SBR ... Just for grins I put my HK arm brace on my CA-89 just to see how it looks ... It's not bad but I SBR'd it back in 07 so I usually have a collapsable A3 stock on it ... The others only get a stock when they have my registered sear in them ... The V-51 is no fun in full auto and it's pretty brutal in semi with an arm brace which is why it will get the benefit of the SBR, a club-foot stock and 2-stage buffer.

    Just for grins, here's a crapy picture of my CA-89 in an arm brace
  13. ScottS

    ScottS Well-Known Member


    OMG, that which has been seen can't be unseen...

    Maybe it's less paperwork, but man, that's one ugly MP5.
  14. kimberkid

    kimberkid Well-Known Member

    I'm really not sure how to take that ...


    I mean, yeah, she's really ugly in that, but do you really want to hurt Elfriede's (Elfi) feelings.

    Well, do ya?

    Maybe you just need to see her as she really is ... IRL she's an SBR!


  15. ScottS

    ScottS Well-Known Member

    In real-life, she's [Borat]very nice![/Borat]

    The MP5-platform is one of those rare examples where all the aesthetics come together perfectly. It's a thing of beauty.

    NFA paperwork is a small price to pay to avoid that Sig brace.

    Even though mine is just a lowly .22 variant, it's true to Tilo, Manfred, Georg, and Helmut.




    And to stay on the general track of the thread, NFA paperwork is really such a non-event I can't see the attraction of the Sig brace, but that's me.
  16. kimberkid

    kimberkid Well-Known Member

    I agree completely!
    There are some firearms that the Arm Brace is less offensive. HOWEVER it really has no place on an HK, and the hinge makes it even more hideous.

    On the other hand, the AR its not bad ... I submit a pistol build I've been working on for the last month or so:


    Even the AK Pistol, without the folder doesn't look too bad:

    Of course, this is my opinion ... YMMV
  17. Charger442

    Charger442 Well-Known Member

    im a big opponent of the sig brace, and have expressed it on other forums, though i wont expound here. The misinformation in this thread is kinds ridiculous.

    My point was always that anyone could own an AR pistol, and you could even shoulder it. and it actually shot pretty well with just the buffer tube. now all you guys are throwing 130 bucks plus a KAK tube on and thinking youve just shirked the government? Meh, to each their own.

    I was already in the NFA game prior to these tacticool arm brace faux stock things coming out, I wouldnt change a thing about how i did it.

    My magpul STR is extremely nice to shoot on my 11.5" DD barreled upper with Griffin Armament suppressor.
  18. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Well-Known Member

    I can't stand the Sig Arm Brace either, but please point out the "misinformation" in this thread. :scrutiny:
  19. kimberkid

    kimberkid Well-Known Member

    I'm already in the NFA game as well, I have 7 SBR's.

    I remember that I was stunned when I heard that you could shoot an AR pistol from the shoulder and thought the BATFE would reverse their position on that especially when I saw the foam covers and extended length pistol tubes. Personally I think the AR Pistol, with the tube only looks silly, but thats me. The Arm Brace makes it not only look better but balance better ... but thats not really the point, I get what you are saying pertaining to the AR.

    The thing is that until the Arm Brace came along, there was no alternative for other firearms such as the AK, SiG and the HK to name just a few its been adapted to ... this gives people that live in states where SBR is not permitted an option.

    The cost of an NFA stamp is only $200 but then you still have to add in the cost of the stock. On an AR its pretty cheap but on a SiG, thats another $165 and if you need an adaptor block another $100(so all of a sudden you are at $465 to SBR), on an HK a collapsable stock is another $200-$400 (so you are at $400-$600 to SBR) ... but to IMHO the biggest pain in the arse is tha wait time; its gotten redicilous and I don't know of a single class 3 dealer that will let his money be tied up for that long waiting on BTAFE approval. When I bought my M16 I had $12,000 tied up while it sat at my C3's for 5 months ...

    Lastly, a point that many have made is that with the Arm Brace, you don't have to register with the BTAFE or ask permission the cross state lines as you do with any NFA item ... to some people that is a big deal in itself.
  20. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Well-Known Member

    Funny, but all rifles already come with a stock......and it's free BTW.;)
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