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sightless pistol

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by dashootist, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. dashootist

    dashootist Well-Known Member

    Met a gunsmith with a 1911 w/o sights. He build the gun and begin shooting it before he put the sights on. He liked to so much he decided to leave them off.

    The amazing thing is that he was beating, like, 80% of the competitor at the match. We were shooting steel plates. Biggest plate was 6-inch diameter. Smallest plate was only 2-inch wide. From 15 yards away!

    How does he do it without sights?

    It just looks like the ultima no-snag pistol for CC. The slide is not even cut for sights. It looks very slick.
  2. TAKtical

    TAKtical Well-Known Member

    Practice. Reflex shooting can be very effective if you have enough experience with a specific platform.
  3. 2wheels

    2wheels Well-Known Member

    Practice practice practice.

    You should try shooting a Colt New Agent sometime, it's surprising how accurate a gun with only a trench cut down the length of the slide to help you get more or less on target can be. I assume this guys 1911 didn't even have a trench though? Impressive shooting.

    I like that slick sightless look, that's part of why I bought my New Agent.
  4. jigglyjames29

    jigglyjames29 Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  5. bannockburn

    bannockburn Well-Known Member

    When I looked at the New Agent without sights I just couldn't get any feel for the trench set-up. I did end up going with the model that had the XS sights on it. Quick and easy to aquire and get on target with.
  6. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

    Most of us who shoot shotguns at flying targets only use our hands and eyes to be successful. Looks like that girl in the video was doing the same
  7. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    Psh, I do this all the time in Call of Duty!

    In all seriousness, there are actually some pistols (generally pocket pistols) that don't even come with sights. Seecamp is a good example of this.
  8. creeper1956

    creeper1956 Well-Known Member

    Although the alignment is somewhat course, it's still more than adequate for the distances and targets used.

    People get so hung up with trying to get a perfect sight picture that it slows them down and/or causes them to stress out to the point that their hit/group quality is diminished. We all get hung up with this issue at some point, and many never get past it to realize that, for most handgun purposes, perfect sight alignment is simply not that critical.
    Your gunsmith has, either by accident or on purpose, found out that the most rudimentary of sighting systems... meaning using the slide only as his point of reference, removes a great deal of stress from the task of aiming. His eye sees the slide, the target and their relationship... and based on previous success, if it looks about right, the brain says "OK... this is good enough, pull the trigger".

    Years ago I had a surplus 1911 with no sights... that's the way it came to me for a whopping $40 (NRA "Fair"). It was loose as a goose but a good shooter, and with no sights to strain my brain, I could find, align and hit targets with boring regularity.

    I've had a Seecamp .32ACP since 1990 (for which I waited a year to get, as they were still substantially hand made and in very high demand)... and you're correct. Larry Seecamp correctly deduced that at the distances the little gun would be used, and considering the short sight radius, sights were not needed. I can empty a magazine rather quickly into a 3 inch circle at 15 feet or less... plenty accurate for the intended purpose.

    dashootist, and anyone else if you'd like to test the theory... if you have a gun with easily removable sights... take 'em off and try shooting it some time. It's fun... and educational. :D
  9. Ankeny

    Ankeny Well-Known Member

    All that is required is to be able to determine the relationship of the pistol to the target. How that is accomplished is up to the individual. As a general rule, as shots become more difficult, more inputs (kinesthetic and/or visual) are required to make the hit. What do you suppose the 20% that beat the guy with the sightless pistol were doing?

    As for sight picture vs. sight alignment, there is a big difference. ;)
  10. mavracer

    mavracer Well-Known Member

    I see a lot of folks at the range that from the looks of their target that the sights on their guns are largly ornamental anyway.
  11. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    This can be funny or arrogant depending on where you draw the line between useful and ornamental.
  12. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Well-Known Member

    Sounds pretty funny to me.
  13. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    I've learned that I can shoot pretty well without seeing my sights...although it wasn't voluntarily. Both were during firearms qualification periods; once I lost the front sight on a 1911 and another was when I put on the wrong pair of glasses and couldn't see the front sight at all.

    What I learned is that extensive practice with sighted shooting allows one to learn correct index and to use the top of the slide as an aiming index...Ayoob called it the Stressfire Index in his book. This is the reason that I've never understood the usefulness of XS sights, as they offer no advantage over index shooting.

    You could learn to shoot by just indexing a sightless pistol without sights, it just take a lot more ammunition...as it can't be learned through Dry Fire
  14. Ankeny

    Ankeny Well-Known Member

    Me too. ;)
  15. tekarra

    tekarra Well-Known Member

    The late Jim Cirillo advocated learning to shoot a pistol without using the sights for quick aiming and for low light situations. It is surprising how accurate this method is with a bit of practice.
  16. Droid noob

    Droid noob Well-Known Member

    I had my front sight fall off during a class. The instructor saw it as a good opportunity for me to practice lol. I had to use the top right length of the slide as my "sight picture". Worked out surprisingly well.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
  17. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

    the bulk of my practice with my carry guns is point shooting......as i figure if i ever need to use my guns in a SD scenario, im not going to have time( or frame of mind) to line up sights and use them.

    i look at my target, bring my pistol up to eye level ( not taking my focus off the target) and shoot....never once looking at the sights.

    if you have a natural pointing pistol, you should have no problem hitting the target.

    at self defense ranges (<20' or so), i can keep all my shots COM slowfire......and i can keep all my shots on an average sized torso shooting rapid fire.
  18. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    This is a video of D.R. Middlebrooks using a sightless gun, he is a trainer who is very strong on point shooting.
    BTW his wife is almost as good with a sightless gun!

  19. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Well-Known Member

    If you have a "feel" for the gun you can do well without sights. You can even do well with your eyes closed.

    I passed the Texas concealed carry qualification (just for practice) with my eyes closed.



  20. ku4hx

    ku4hx Well-Known Member

    The flat surface of the slide's top is a sight of sorts very similar to that of a shotgun. As you acquire the proper "sight picture" (get the rear and forward edges of the slide top to come together) the slide plane disappears. A little practice with your pet load and "Kentucky Windage" will get you into the "kill" zone.

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