Smith&Wesson M&P Sport: Range reports and Q&A

[PodPeople]

Academy is having a sale this week - the M&P Sport is $549.99.

 

[christcorp]

That would be tempting. If there weren't any sales on M&P15's at $750, with a $100 rebate, bringing it to $650..... I'd be very tempted to get an M&P15-Sport. We all know that the main difference between the sport and the normal run of M&P15's is:
1. No Dust Cover: For some; no big deal. For some, especially those who lube with grease and not oil, it's nice to be able to cover the BCG.
2. No forward assist: Except for chambering a round in "Stealth mode" which is actually more common, because there are some that don't like leaving a loaded round in the chamber, the Forward assist isn't necessary. It's nice to slowly load a round, manually go forward, then use the forward assist to finish chambering. It's very quiet. However; i'm old school, and learned in the military how to go stealth, before forward assists existed. We simply use our thumb on the scallop of the BCG. But for most, it isn't important.
3. It doesn't have heat shields on the forearm grips. If you don't shoot a lot, no big deal. If you shoot a couple hundred rounds at an outing, you'll find yourself spending $50-$75 for a new set of forearm grips with shielding.
4, The sights are also pretty cheap. If you don't mind, it's not a problem. If you're going to spend money on new sights, you're going to spend at least the $100 you saved on getting the sport.
5. Then there's the chrome barrel thing. Melonite is good, but not as good as chrome lined. It goes; 1) Steel 2) Chrome Moly 3) Melonite 4) chrome lined. Some say that melonite is almost as good as chrome lined. Well, ALMOST is relative. If you don't shoot a lot of rounds, then melonite is ALMOST as good. If you shoot a lot; e.g. 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, then chrome lined is better. It's about 30% more durable. And don't believe the "We shot 170,000 rounds in a test..." crap. 25,000-35,000 is about the number of rounds in a chrome lined barrel. Depending on the ammo. About then, you should be looking at a new barrel if you want any decent accuracy. With melonite, it's closer to 15,000-22,000 rounds. Again; for the person shooting 1000-2000 rounds per year, no problem. For the person shooting 5,000-10,000 rounds per year, you're looking at a considerable savings by having a chrome lined.

There's also some other differences in the sport and the other models. Again; the price you show is a very good price. But it depends on what you are going to do with the rifle, and how much shooting you are going to do. If you want the BEST ACCURACY, go with a stainless steel barrel. But you're going to replace it much sooner. And you need to take extra care with it so it doesn't corrode/rust. If you shoot a lot, then get chrome lined. it lasts the longest. If you want a cheap compromise, you go with chrome moly or melonite. But for the average plinker, I think the Sport is a great rifle. especially for the price.

 

[Acelaw]

Isn't the $100 rebate leo only or something?

 

[Breakmyfootoff]

Just got back from Academy, and it is indeed 549.00 until Saturday, if you can find one. My local Academy is out of stock on the Sport.

 

[benzy2]

5. Then there's the chrome barrel thing. Melonite is good, but not as good as chrome lined. It goes; 1) Steel 2) Chrome Moly 3) Melonite 4) chrome lined. Some say that melonite is almost as good as chrome lined. Well, ALMOST is relative. If you don't shoot a lot of rounds, then melonite is ALMOST as good. If you shoot a lot; e.g. 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, then chrome lined is better. It's about 30% more durable. And don't believe the "We shot 170,000 rounds in a test..." crap. 25,000-35,000 is about the number of rounds in a chrome lined barrel. Depending on the ammo. About then, you should be looking at a new barrel if you want any decent accuracy. With melonite, it's closer to 15,000-22,000 rounds. Again; for the person shooting 1000-2000 rounds per year, no problem. For the person shooting 5,000-10,000 rounds per year, you're looking at a considerable savings by having a chrome lined.

For me, I find the melonite type finish to be the best option of the bunch. You can take a quality chrome moly barrel that is a bit more accurate than a chrome lined barrel and keep accuracy quite a bit longer than a bare chrome moly or SS barrel. A quality chrome moly barrel will shoot very close to a quality SS barrel. Toss on a finish that makes it last twice as long and it's a very smart choice for many shooters. Personally I'd love a Wilson blank finished by WOA and the nitride coated. Much longer lasting than without and a much better shooter than chrome lined. Its a great compromise for someone who is looking for an accurate barrel that will last a long time. Though I will say this is all more on the idea of Melonite and not saying that S&W has or hasn't made a good shooter out of these barrels.

 

[christcorp]

For me, I find the melonite type finish to be the best option of the bunch. You can take a quality chrome moly barrel that is a bit more accurate than a chrome lined barrel and keep accuracy quite a bit longer than a bare chrome moly or SS barrel. A quality chrome moly barrel will shoot very close to a quality SS barrel. Toss on a finish that makes it last twice as long and it's a very smart choice for many shooters. Personally I'd love a Wilson blank finished by WOA and the nitride coated. Much longer lasting than without and a much better shooter than chrome lined. Its a great compromise for someone who is looking for an accurate barrel that will last a long time. Though I will say this is all more on the idea of Melonite and not saying that S&W has or hasn't made a good shooter out of these barrels.

Again; nothing wrong with Melonite. But if you are a mega-shooter, and shoot 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, a chrome lined barrel is better for you. Again; you have to realize what you want the gun to do for you. If you used the gun for what it was designed for; SHOOTING PEOPLE AT/UP TO 100+/- yards; and practicing for that; then a chrome lined barrel is way more than accurate enough. Even the Mil-Standard is for Chrome Lined.

Now; if you are wanting to turn your AR into a 300-600 yard target rifle, and you're looking at competition type accuracy, then I'd be looking at a stainless steel barrel. I shoot regularly at 300+ yards, but NOT with my AR. I practice shooting those distances for elk, sheep, ram, etc... hunting. I practice those shots with my 7mm magnum. I personally don't get into shooting targets as an objective. Shooting targets is simply practice for shooting the live target. Either animal or human. For me, the .223/5.56 is for shooting humans.

But; because I shoot 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, and yes a lot of it is simply enjoyable, I want a barrel that will last the longest while maintaining the necessary accuracy to hit a human target with open sights at 100+/- yards. That's why I want chrome lined.

Again; nothing wrong with a melonite barrel on an AR. And there's nothing wrong with getting an M&P15-Sport. But for me, the sport wouldn't have fit my requirements.
1) I don't want a fixed sight on the front. Matter of fact, I have too many sights. I didn't want ANY SIGHTS. Or at least the ability to remove them.
2) I wanted a barrel that would last the longest. That's Chrome Lined.
3) Because I shoot a lot, I didn't want to spend and extra $50-$75 for a new set of forearm grips that had heat shields in them.

Nothing wrong with the Sport at all for most average AR owners. I got the AR I wanted, and it only cost $100 more. But with adding new forearm grips, it would be close to a break even on price. And I'm not going to consider the melonite being more accurate. At that level of accuracy, it's more the shooter than the gun. My Chrome lined M&P15-OR, I can shoot a 4"x4" square at 100 yards, with open/red sights, and put ALL 30 rounds from the magazine in that square. That's plenty good enough for me. And my barrel will last a few more years than the melonite.

 

[basicblur]

I always get a kick outta folks that say chrome lining is accurate enough
BUT
should you ever dare mention foregoing a free floating rail for a drop-in...

You know who you are...

 

[ugaarguy]

3. It doesn't have heat shields on the forearm grips. If you don't shoot a lot, no big deal. If you shoot a couple hundred rounds at an outing, you'll find yourself spending $50-$75 for a new set of forearm grips with shielding.

Already been addressed, and you're inflating that number massively. It's actually $18 for single shield, and $23 for double shield at Brownells. Here's a listing for some very nice surplus M4 handguards for $10 - http://www.gunrunners.com/index.php?a=2&b=2535

4, The sights are also pretty cheap. If you don't mind, it's not a problem. If you're going to spend money on new sights, you're going to spend at least the $100 you saved on getting the sport.

To quote myself from post #44

So, after pounding on the FSB, installing a new free float handguard set, and monkeying with the rear sight; I was sure my zero would be off. I returned to the local indoor range to reset my 25m point blank zero. The zero was still dead on. Pounding on the FSB pins like I did would have knocked the windage off if this rifle wasn't put together as well as it is. Running the rear sight elevation drum up, and then back down would have knocked the elevation off if S&W was supplying a cheap rear sight to cut costs. Neither happened - the rifle held zero. This is just another demonstration of how well S&W building this $600 rifle.

The rear sight is a virtual copy of the standard rear sight on LMT rifles. As noted above, it's a good quality piece. The front sight is the same F height FSB seen on countless other high end rifles - see quote above if you think S&W is using a cheap FSB on this rifle. If you just don't like the rear sight, a MagPul MBUS is $60 from a host of online sources. The Daniel Defense A1.5 fixed rear sight is of superb quality, and it's only $65 - that's a far cry from the $100 you're claiming.

5. Then there's the chrome barrel thing. Melonite is good, but not as good as chrome lined. It goes; 1) Steel 2) Chrome Moly 3) Melonite 4) chrome lined. Some say that melonite is almost as good as chrome lined. Well, ALMOST is relative. If you don't shoot a lot of rounds, then melonite is ALMOST as good. If you shoot a lot; e.g. 5,000-10,000 rounds a year, then chrome lined is better. It's about 30% more durable. And don't believe the "We shot 170,000 rounds in a test..." crap. 25,000-35,000 is about the number of rounds in a chrome lined barrel. Depending on the ammo. About then, you should be looking at a new barrel if you want any decent accuracy. With melonite, it's closer to 15,000-22,000 rounds. Again; for the person shooting 1000-2000 rounds per year, no problem. For the person shooting 5,000-10,000 rounds per year, you're looking at a considerable savings by having a chrome lined.

See post #8 for link to US Army study. The ferritic nitrocarburized achieved 3/4 the durability of barrels that had a Stellite front third lining, and hard chrome lined remainder; under full auto belt fed firing. Stellite is far harder than chrome, and the front third Stellite lining is used in M2 HMG bbls. The chrome moly bbls. made 1/3 the round count of the Stellite / hard chrome hybrid lined bbls at best, and about 1/10 the round count on average. Take away the Stellite front third, and go to all hard chrome; and the difference between ferritic nitrocarburizing & chrome lining will likely close even further. Unlined / untreated chrome moly bbls aren't even in the same league as the two most durable options.

If you want the BEST ACCURACY, go with a stainless steel barrel. But you're going to replace it much sooner. And you need to take extra care with it so it doesn't corrode/rust. If you shoot a lot, then get chrome lined. it lasts the longest. If you want a cheap compromise, you go with chrome moly or melonite.

Again, chrome moly isn't event in the same league as ferritic nitrocarburizing. Calling a Melonite bbl. a cheap compromise, and equivalent to untreated chrome moly is a joke. Don't forget, this isn't just a run of mill bbl that's been Melonited either - it's a T/C manufactured 5R bbl. Those bbls, untreated, have proven themselves incredibly accurate in the Venture & Icon rifles. Let some Sport owners get some long range testing in, and we'll see about accuracy.

Let me also be clear - I'm not defending this rifle because I own one. I own one because of the value it represents. I'm defending the M&P Sport because someone (S&W in this case) has built a very high quality AR type rifle at $600 street price. If DPMS, Bushmaster, or whomever else will build a rifle of this quality at a similar price point; and I'll extoll it's virtues. Right now, S&W is redefining what a value model AR carbine is.

 

[benzy2]

christcorp,

If all that matters is barrel life, chrome lined is better as you have stated. If all that is important is accuracy it seems SS has a slight edge of chrome moly, though I'm not so sure that is totally true. I find though that while I'm not a 5-10k round per year .223 shooter, I enjoy the extra barrel life from the melonite type finish without giving up accuracy to the chrome lined bore. While chrome lined doesn't have to be inaccurate, I haven't seen a ton that looked amazing when punching paper on the AR system. On the other hand, quite a few of the different nitride coatings have shown a decent increase in barrel life without sacrificing accuracy of the chrome moly barrel. To me its the perfect trade off because how I shoot, I don't want chrome lined to start but don't mind the extra barrel life. I've lost most interest in shooting anything alive so my enjoyment comes at the range. As such, a nice paper puncher is at the top of my list rather than a combat or hunting capable tool. Different strokes for different folks.

I can understand the heavy user not wanting this rifle, but lets be honest, it certainly isn't marketed to the heavy user. Still, for $550, it's got a bit going for it. Swap out the upper for a standard upper, buy the float tube and low profile gas block of choice, sell the rear sight, and depending on the rail, you could still be under $1k with a top tier bolt/bcg, a nice middle ground accuracy/durability barrel, with the parts you want. If you go with a simple float tube without rails you could be out for under $800.

 

[Fabius]

I'm defending the M&P Sport because someone (S&W in this case) has built a very high quality AR type rifle at $600 street price

That's one of the reasons that I've been posting on this and other forums about the Sport. Before the Sport came out I was getting frustrated with AR manufacturers and the options they offered. Many are, IMO, almost arrogant in their approach.

Want a Colt, Noveske, etc? Pay $1,000+. Not interested in customers who are looking for a more economical alternative.

Want a BCM or Spikes Tactical? Get in line and wait a few months.

Want a rifle for less than $800? Buy something with a plastic lower or unlined, untreated barrel.

Want a rifle with a barrel that won't be shot out in 5,000 rounds? Pony up for expensive chrome lining.

I'm grateful to S&W because they are offering an alternative to their customers and showing a little innovation. Get rid of the forward assist because it is an unnecessarily complicated feature that adds nothing to the functionality of the gun. Eugene Stoner opposed adding a forward assist at all and opposed the design the Army eventually adopted because it was more complicated and expensive than alternative designs.

Get rid of the dust cover. Most civilian users don't need it.

Melonite treat the barrel to give decent barrel life at a lower cost and greater accuracy. Add 5R rifling because you can and it adds value without increasing cost.

So, IMO, Smith and Wesson stepped up. They are offering customers a product that other manufacturers have been unable or unwilling to come up with. It fits my needs. I think that it is every bit as good of a product as most mid and upper tier AR's on the market. Regardless, it is clearly superior to anything else in its price range.

 

[68wj]

Melonite (others call it QPQ, Nitro Carborized, Tennifer, and WASP) does more than harden the bore from wear, it is also a corrosion inhibitor. A melonite barrel appears blued rather than the phosphate coating of most AR barrels. Those that have freefloat forearms, when is the last time that you removed yours and wiped down the exterior of the barrel?

 

[christcorp]

Some of you really do need to stop reading into posts. We don't want to sound like that "Other site". I have said more times than I can count that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Sport model of the M&P15. And if it's a $550-$600 for the sport, vs a $750-$800 for an OR or Standard M&P15, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting the sport. Especially for the average shooter.

But for the person who is not the average shooter, who shoots a lot more, I think the Chrome Lined models are a better choice. If you can get an OR or a standard M&P15 on sale; PLUS can get one of the yearly rebates, and can get the M&P15 for $650, "Like I did", then I think that's the better deal. But head to head, for the average shooter, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the sport.

For clarification: I was quoting the price of replacing the forearm grips, not just adding heat shields. As for sights, I was quoting my needs. I didn't have a need for a rifle with sights. I have plenty. I use optics; mainly red-dots. I want to be able to either have NO FRONT SIGHT, or at least a folding front. The sport wouldn't allow that for me. And as for accuracy, some of you are way overstating the supposed better accuracy of melonite vs chrome lined. I would say that any shooter, shooting both, at 100 yards, is going to be comparable. it is NOT going to be a significant difference in accuracy. Now; if you want to talk 300-600 yards for competition type shooting; have at it. Sorry, but anyone who starts mentioning "MOA" in a forum post, automatically turns me off from caring what they say. They automatically tells me that they aren't looking at the rifle for what it was designed for, but rather as some sport/competition gun. That's fine. Just not what i care about.

Just like "Some" of you don't give a rat's a$s about a forward assist or dust cover, some of us don't give a rat's a$s about gaining 1/2-1moa from having a melonite over chrome lined. Matter of fact, if I see people posting that they shoot "Sub 1moa at 100 yards", I usually think they are FOS anyway. But if that's what they're into, have at it. "Basicblur: That is what i mean by chrome lined being accurate enough". Even mil-spec, (Which I don't really emphasize), is for chrome lined. And that's what i am. Military. Retired after 21 years. I was trained on the M4/M16. My purpose for one, and what I expect from it, is obviously different than some people here. That's cool.

Again, for the 2,453,584 time; the Sport is an excellent weapon. It's a great price. But don't make it out to be S&W's new TOP OF THE LINE rifle. It's not better. In many ways it's equal to all the other M&P15 series. In some ways, it's not. In most ways, the areas that it isn't as good, are irrelevant to most people. That's what makes the Sport such a great weapon. It doesn't need to be at the same spec as the other M&P15's for most people's uses.

 

[ugaarguy]

But for the person who is not the average shooter, who shoots a lot more, I think the Chrome Lined models are a better choice. If you can get an OR or a standard M&P15 on sale; PLUS can get one of the yearly rebates, and can get the M&P15 for $650, "Like I did", then I think that's the better deal. But head to head, for the average shooter, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the sport.

All M&P-15s (including the Sport) use 4140 steel for their bbls. If anyone is concerned with ultimate durability they should look strongly at Daniel Defense or Bravo Company, who offer barrels which are cold hammer forged from MIL-B-11595E steel. Noveske, who uses M249 SAW bbl blanks with hard chroming twice as thick as M4/M16 chrome lining would be an even better choice. If I shoot out the bbl. on my Sport I'll replace it with a DD CHF bbl. (like the one on my DD M4 V1). Some folks also want to shoot 75 gr and heavier bullets, which 1:7 and 1:8 twist bbls. are better suited for than 1:9 twist bbls.

For clarification: I was quoting the price of replacing the forearm grips, not just adding heat shields.

I was the one who wasn't clear enough. Those prices I quoted were for a complete pair of handguards with the heat shields; not a heat shield to put into the handguards, as my previous wording made it seem.

As for sights, I was quoting my needs. I didn't have a need for a rifle with sights. I have plenty. I use optics; mainly red-dots. I want to be able to either have NO FRONT SIGHT, or at least a folding front. The sport wouldn't allow that for me.

4, The sights are also pretty cheap. If you don't mind, it's not a problem. If you're going to spend money on new sights, you're going to spend at least the $100 you saved on getting the sport.

That's intellectually dishonest. You're stating that the Sport needs new sights, which it doesn't. Then you compare it to the M&P-15 OR, which includes neither sights, nor an optic. You ignore that you'll need to spend at least that same $100 to get sights on the OR, if not more more for a decent optic. So, the real math is: M&P Sport on sale for $550 + $0 for sights = $550 vs. M&P OR for $750 - $100 rebate check + $100 for sights (or more for optic) = $750 minimum. For the record, I still think that's a great price, and a great value on the M&P OR.

Honestly, I think we're talking past each other on these rifles. Both the Sport and the OR are great values for their respective purposes. There's nothing truly wrong with either rifle (unlike some competitors who sell similarly priced rifles with out of spec chambers, or unlined / untreated bbls, or a bunch of heavily worn surplus parts in the build).

As for the forward assist, VLTOR is selling their rather high end MUR (Modular Upper Receiver) in two configurations, one of which doesn't have the forward assist. You didn't mention it, but for anyone else who's curious Noveske is also offering a lower with the trigger guard as an integral part of the forging. Again, just comes down to preference.

Military. Retired after 21 years. I was trained on the M4/M16. My purpose for one, and what I expect from it, is obviously different than some people here. That's cool.

From a fellow veteran (4 years USAF), Thank you for your service.

 

[chris in va]

No problems at all with my Sport after 1000 of my reloads. I'm more than satisfied and happy with the purchase. My LGS got a dozen of them in back in March, and I managed to get the very last one in early May. They're hot sellers.

Also a 4 year veteran of the USAF.

 

[benzy2]

Sorry, but anyone who starts mentioning "MOA" in a forum post, automatically turns me off from caring what they say. They automatically tells me that they aren't looking at the rifle for what it was designed for, but rather as some sport/competition gun.

Don't know how much or little of the entire post was pointed to me, but look at the title of the rifle. M&P Sport. Makes me think this rifle was intended for sport. I find your post a bit condescending to be honest. Enjoy what you shoot. No need to be a jerk to those who are interested in something else. For someone who's looking for a heavy use combat rifle, this isn't it. For someone who is looking for a budget accurate fun rifle with a bit of longevity, this fits well. It's nothing more or less than what it is. It has it's target customer, and those aren't people looking to abuse the absolute snot out of a rifle.

 

[Zerodefect]

E
1 - Magpul CTR buttstock
2 - Free float quad rail
3 - Some kind of optic (not sure what yet)
4 - Upper receiver with FA and dust cover (maybe)
5 - Complete upper in 6.8

1-I'd recommend the ACS over the CTR.
2- Send your upper to ADCO, they'll chop the front sight off and install a long FF rail. I prefere the Larue 12-13".
3-Depends on your useage. Aimpoint LM# 2moa dot/squid in a Larue LT129 cantilever is very nice.

 

[Zerodefect]

Melonite (others call it QPQ, Nitro Carborized, Tennifer, and WASP) does more than harden the bore from wear, it is also a corrosion inhibitor. A melonite barrel appears blued rather than the phosphate coating of most AR barrels.

Those that have freefloat forearms, when is the last time that you removed yours and wiped down the exterior of the barrel?

\]

I generally just hose the upper down with CLP spray, and wipe clean what I can reach while the barrel drips dry.

I only take my FF rail off when there is dirt caked in there.

 

[Breakmyfootoff]

Thanks for the recommendations zero, ADCO looks like a good place to have in the bookmarks list. Obviously I dont NEED a free float tube/quad rail, I'm just trying to decide if I want it enough to spend a couple hundred dollars for it. I'm also looking at the MOE set in OD green too.

 

[Acelaw]

I bought the Sport as a fathers day/july 4 present. I know next to nothing about ARs so this is probably a dumb question. Can anything be mounted on the Sport handguard as it is shipped from the factory? I don't have a need to mount anything really but I was just wondering if it's an option. Doesn't seem to have a picatinny type system up front. Thanks

 

[Breakmyfootoff]

Rails can be added to the holes on the top and bottom of the original hand guards. I think Midway has them for around 10.00, or you might be able to find some locally.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

I had one stoppage around the 50 round mark where it failed to cycle the bolt far enough to catch the next round out of the magazine. I'm not sure what caused the one failure, but it never happened again.

could be the mag follower tilting. what kind of mag did it happen with?

 

[Breakmyfootoff]

could be the mag follower tilting. what kind of mag did it happen with?

Wish I had thought to take note of which magazine it was at the time :banghead: . It came with a PMag in the box, and when I bought the rifle I also picked up one extra mag (metal "pro mag" with a green follower). I still havent purchased any more magazines and alternating between those 2 magazines I now have about 600 rounds through it without any additional problems. Most of it has been the cheap Monarch 55 grain from Academy. I really need to order some ammo online.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

^^it wouldn't surprise me if it were the pro mag lol my experiences with those aren't great lol.

the pmags are generally good stuff. usually pretty cheap too.