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So, about this new NY ammo law...

Discussion in 'Legal' started by jamesbeat, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. jamesbeat

    jamesbeat Well-Known Member

    Good stuff. I'll do some research and see what I can do to help.
    May inly be letter writing, but better than nothing.
  2. 788Ham

    788Ham Well-Known Member

    A tad off thread here..... The big LGS aren't wanting to do NICS gun checks for prospective buyers now either, with the state mandating background checks for everyone. The LGS are stating, "If they think getting a BGC done for $10, they better think again, we won't do it for $10, it'll cost them closer to $50 for our time." Who knows where this will end !
  3. Nickel Plated

    Nickel Plated Well-Known Member

    Seems like the NY legislature is now trying to remove all or most of the funding from the SAFE act in the next budget. So I have a hard time seeing how these checks will even be implemented. Not that it really matters. Buy guns out-of-state, buy ammo out-of-state, shoot out-of-state (NY doesn't seem to have many good shooting ranges anyway). Problems solved. Laws don't apply.

    I know that discussing illegal acts here is frowned upon but at this point you might as well just call it activism. Civil disobedience.
  4. jamesbeat

    jamesbeat Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure that what you're discussing is illegal, depends what the laws concerning bringing ammo in from another state are.
    I don't like the sound of that $50 thing.
    If gun stores started charging that much for the background check, it wouldn't make the lawmakers reconsider, it would make them rub their hands in glee. They don't want us to buy ammo.
    I think that a lot of stores will just either stop selling ammo, or try to get away with charging a ridiculous fee for the check.
    Then, when nobody can afford to get ammo for their guns, the stores will go out of business.

    Guns stores are something I'm concerned about at the moment, especially with the threat of UBC's looming.
    If we get UBC's or have to have a BC for ammo, the gun stores get something new to charge us for.
    Obviously, any gun store owner with a brain will realize that it would be the beginning of the end, but short sighted FFL's will be delighted at the opportunity to get more money.
    We need the support of FFL's to win this, but they stand to make more money (in the short term) from these laws.
  5. Monson

    Monson Member

    The easiest way to beat this problem I can think of is just to move to Texas!
  6. smalls

    smalls Well-Known Member

    Hold on- you don't need an FFL to sell ammo. How is the local Wally World, or wherever supposed to run an NCIC check if it doesn't hold an FFL? What about people who order online?
  7. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Well-Known Member

    !) NICS checks are for firearm purchases, not for ammo sales. NYS will have to come up with it's own system to allow non-FFL's to use the system.

    2) on-line sales. Outlaw them ... just as they do in NYC
  8. ThorinNNY

    ThorinNNY Well-Known Member

    There`s an article you might want to see. Go to www.ogd.com ,look at the Sunday March 17, 2013 edition. Don`t see why it couldn`t be done in your area, unless the First Amendment no longer applies. Good luck.
  9. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    Having to "ask permission" to purchase ammunition for self-defense or hunting or plinking or whatever-the-hell-you-feel-like-buying-ammo-for.... is wrong.

    Absolutely, positively, irrevocably wrong.

    Let me add to the scenarios / questions:

    Assume you have ammunition in your car. You drive out of state to visit relatives, and on the way back get pulled over just inside the border. Cops find ammo in the trunk. Assume you just bought it out of state and arrest you. No affirmative defense.

    Assume you have ammunition in your car. You get pulled over. Cops find ammo in the trunk. You don't have proof that you purchased it in state because you bought it before the ban. Cops assume you bought it illegally, and arrest you. No affirmative defense.

    Sorry... this is just too screwed up.

    As much as I dislike the Federal Government, this is one instance where they SHOULD have already stepped in and said "No, you can NOT do that."
  10. hovercat

    hovercat Well-Known Member

    A bit off topic, but how does the 'no affirmative defense' work? Am I reading correctly that the legislature recognizes the law is flawed. So they say that just posessing something proves that you broke the law, even though you may have obtained it legally, it is too much bother to prove that you obtained it illegally. So you are no longer innocent until proven guilty, because it is too hard to prove that in court?:what:
  11. itsa pain

    itsa pain member

    I am almost glad about this ammo disaster in NY because there are guys who think as long as they do not ban my rem 700 or 870 I do not care if they ban ars aks etc. Now hopefully they will get involved in fighting it
  12. steelerdude99

    steelerdude99 Well-Known Member

    Never consent to a search and don't put your ammo box(s) on the passenger seat or anywhere else in plain view.

    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  13. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Well-Known Member

    As has been pointed out, only Federally Licensed Dealers (or distributors and manufacturers/importers) can request a NICS check, and then only when transfering a firearm to an unlicensed person (think "retail buyer") or business. Before requesting the check a 4473 form must be filled out, and that form makes no provision for ammunition.

    The fact is that New York's liberal legislators (not to mention the governor) do not understand that they cannot dictate what federally licensed dealers (etc.) can do or not do relative to the federal NICS system. If they want a background check made on ammunition buyers they will have to set up they're own process and fund it.
  14. ThorinNNY

    ThorinNNY Well-Known Member

    Well Cuomo wants to spend about $ 36 million bucks just to set up a system so NYS can do those checks on ammo buyers. He`ll rob Peter to pay Paul to do it by juggling the books.
    It`s a criminal offense if businessmen pull off a Ponzi scheme, but if Cuomo does it the press will call it "good government"!

    Politicians- you can`t live with `em and you can`t (legally,that is) feed `em to hungry sharks, either.:(
  15. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    Yup, they have NY'ers in a catch-22 in certain circumstances. If you can't prove that you already owned that ammo you brought in to the state... or loan someone ammo at a shooting range (say your friend brings ammo that's not working, you loan them a box or two - heck I've done that MANY times... but.. bang... you just committed a crime.)

    There's been a lot of discussion about this in Illinois legislature recently - they're trying to push what you have (and then some), and "affirmative defense" keeps popping up over and over again in the debates. One of the amendments to a gun control bill that just passed in the Illinois House will make it illegal for us to keep firearms at home in a ready state. If that bill passes we will have to keep them unloaded, locked, or in a safe; inaccessible.

    It doesn't matter that the Supreme Court of the US has already ruled that's unconstitutional. Illinois legislators will quite merrily trade one unconstitutional law that just got thrown out by the Federal courts for another.

    Their idea of "good politics" is to do this sort of thing, so we'll have to suffer for 3-5 years each iteration as the new laws are fought through the court system (at great expense to both taxpayers and plaintiffs), just to get them thrown out all over again, so we have to start all over.... rinse & repeat.

    New York will do the same thing, bet your bottom dollar. The MOMENT one bad law is overturned by the Federal court (if any are; they haven't been so far in your Federal court district), they'll just hold a midnight session and pass a different flavor of the same bad medicine, and the process will have to start all over again.
  16. ThorinNNY

    ThorinNNY Well-Known Member

    Perhaps this will lead to Prohibition Era style er,well bootlegging isn`t quite right - hmm, how about ammo-legging ? as in ".. on a moonless night a black rubber raft was remotely guided to a remote spot on Long Island`s South Shore where" surf fisherman" immediately loaded it`s clandestine cargo into beach buggies and drove off into the night to undisclosed locations where....." :neener:
  17. acorn1754

    acorn1754 Member

    The other part of the new NY law that I haven't seen mentioned yet, is the limitation to 500 rounds per 30 days. How NY is going to have a database, tracking how much ammo one buys in any 30 day given period is beyond me. I can see someone buying 50 rounds and the person recording on the other side entering 500 and then they're locked out of ammunition for a month. And what if the database crashes, will no one be able/allowed to buy ammo until it's brought back online and they can track how much individuals are buying? At least it appears reloading was left out...

    And to think I once grew up/lived in NY...
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  18. shotgunjoel

    shotgunjoel Well-Known Member

    The federal govt. has power over interstate commerce, not the states. That was one of the main reasons the Constitution was passed, the states were putting tariffs on goods from other states.
  19. llwsgn

    llwsgn Well-Known Member

    That's been the consistent bottom line with all attempts to diminish the rights of the citizens of this nation to arm themselves. It is simply wrong. . The first point in time that i personally became cognizant that things like that were occuring was in the early 70's while walking to high school. I noticed a bumper sticker, "when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns". I realized at that instant two things, criminals would continue to arm themselves regardless of the law, and men and women who insisted upon living by the basic bill of rights freedom would become criminalized should those rights ever be fully and entirely overcome. Since that time i've observed the relentless struggle to wrongly diminish those rights. I've never seen a time as now that the words on that bumper sticker seemed more prophetic. We must struggle on against this wrong. These compromises that we've been living under to remain law abiding will eventually become an inescapable trap that will prevent us from being free. That is wrong.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  20. PabloJ

    PabloJ Well-Known Member

    How about neighboring MA with their policy no state ID no ammo? That was twenty years ago and I can't imagine things have improved by now.:rolleyes:

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