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So, about this new NY ammo law...

Discussion in 'Legal' started by jamesbeat, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Mr. D

    Mr. D Well-Known Member

    And, as has been mentioned before, just because it is illegal that doesn't keep states from doing it. NY is already in gross violation of the Constitution - what does one more violation mean to them? Besides, the Interstate Commerce clause has been ineffective in the past - PA currently has a law against buying liquor out of state and having it shipped into the state. Recently, they have slightly modified that policy, but, practically speaking, it still hasn't changed a whole lot. It is still illegal for me to order that nice bottle of single malt from an online retailer and have it shipped directly to me - I have to go through the state liquor store system which charges me extra tax and fees for the privilege. :barf:

  2. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Well-Known Member

    I read the 39 page bill that was handed to legislators supposedly 3 minutes before the vote (though after they were told by the 3 men in a room that they had to vote it in). It was passed after Cuomo waived a mandatory 3 day waiting period. Cuomo, who swore in his campaign to end the "3 men in a room" form of gov't Albany is infamous for, (the governor and the 2 party leaders), and who swore there would be transparency, shockingly enough, lied to the people of the State of NY.

    The bill says that the state shall set up it's own system of doing ammo ID checks, you won't go through the Feds. You will have to for person to person sales, and as mentioned, in the bill the state sets a max fee of $10 for the check. Never saw a dealer want less than $25-75 to transfer a gun.

    I do not remember anything in the bill that outlawed ammo purchases out of state.

    A humorous aspect was limiting existing magazines to 10 round capacity (but you can only legally load 7), and failure to exempt police and peace officers. Such was their mad rush to get this bill written in the dead of night that every LEO with a mag capacity of over 10 rounds is now a criminal.

    Even under the last law, other than pre-ban mags (which are now illegal) just the naked possession of a magazine capable of holding over 10 rounds was a crime in itself, no gun needed.

    Cuomo was in such haste to ram this through, it's so obvious that he wanted to be first to make his mark in the national arena to aid his next desire, to be president. As with most politicians, what his constituents actually want is not important, what is is getting reelected.
  3. JohnsXDM

    JohnsXDM Well-Known Member

    500 rounds in 30 days????? Everytime I go to the range it's at least 250 rounds.
  4. pseudonymity

    pseudonymity Well-Known Member

    Do you have a link to where any limitations are setup in the new laws? I could not find one in S2230, just the in-state background checks.

    The law does not cover the possession of ammunition bought out of state, and it does not create a penalty for a person that *buys* ammo without a check. The penalties are all on the seller side.

    As wrong as this check is, this is the least worrying part of these new laws. They do not take effect for a year, and since there is no law that enables the NYSP to charge you to become a registered seller, I think pretty much anybody may be able to become a "seller of ammunition". There are no requirements for being a seller, so unless the NYSP can prove that a prospective seller is not allowed to actually possess ammo, I am not sure that they could deny your registration.
  5. heyjoe

    heyjoe Well-Known Member

    there is nothing in the NY SAFE act which limits ammunition purchases to 500 rounds a month or that makes it illegal to bring ammo in from another state.
  6. acorn1754

    acorn1754 Member

    I stand corrected, I honestly thought I remembered reading that they passed this, but maybe it was an amendment that never made it to the law.

    Now I did read in the new law, "To track high-volume ammunition purchasers, the legislation will make New York the first state in the nation to track ammo purchases in real time. All dealers in ammunition must be registered with the State Police, and each sale will require both a state background check and transmission of a record of the sale to State Police, so as to enable alerts of high volume purchases. Ammunition records will be purged within a year of submission. Dealers must report any loss of inventory. The legislation will also include a ban on direct internet sales of ammunition. Ammunition ordered over the internet must be delivered in a face-to-face transaction with a firearms dealer and the purchaser will be subject to the state background check."

    What will be considered a high volume purchase and do citizens have to worry about getting a visit from the police just because they bought a bulk pack of ammo? Is there anything that tracks reloading and is that the only legal way to get ammo without having to be subjected to a background check once implemented? And are ammo buyers going to be subjected to paying a background check fee each purchase?
  7. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Well-Known Member

    I saw nothing in the bill that mentioned handloading or components. They do not fit the definition of ammunition.

    In related news, the NY Times just quoted Cuomo as saying the new 7 round capacity magazine law is unworkable. Since there are no 7 round mags for many guns, he intends to change the law back to 10 round capacity, but you can still only load 7 rounds unless you are in a competition, or at a range.

    A National Shooting Sports Foundation official said it would have been a de facto ban on handguns.

    Here's the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/n...-a-newly-passed-gun-restriction.html?hpw&_r=0

    Wouldn't it be nice if they did their research BEFORE they passed a law?
  8. pseudonymity

    pseudonymity Well-Known Member

    Since every ammo purchase is transmitted in real-time, the high volume bit is just window dressing. Nowhere does the law authorize the NYSP to block a sale of any quantity of ammo (not that they might not try just that).

    Not exactly true - FFLs have to register with the NYSP to sell ammo, but a non-FFL can register with the NYSP also.

    Ah, now those are good questions. Of course in NY, you always have to worry about any encounter with NYSP in particular - local police and sheriffs not so much IMO.

    The question about what is defined as ammo and are reloading components considered ammo is a good question. Ammo is not defined in NY law, but it is in federal law and sadly it includes components, even unprimed brass. Yes, it is likely you will no longer be able to sell fired range brass in NY next year without a background check.

    The question about a fee is another good one - the law does not say that you can or cannot charge a fee, so my best guess is that the cost of the check will be built into the ammo price.
  9. pseudonymity

    pseudonymity Well-Known Member

    Since there is no definition of ammunition in NY that I can find, I guess it means whatever the courts decide it does. In federal law, ammunition includes reloading components:
    The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm. ​

    I think they did do their research, they just underestimated the pushback from the law, and now they realize that the 7 round limit is probably going to be thrown out by the courts so they plan to preempt any injunction. I prefer that the legislature let the 7 round limit stand so the foolishness of the whole set of laws gets more exposure.

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