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South African Ammo Problems

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by frostbiker, Apr 4, 2007.

  1. frostbiker

    frostbiker Well-Known Member

    Just caught this blurb on CNN.com. Here's the link:


    JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (Reuters) -- South Africa's state arms agency Armscor sold hundreds of millions of rounds of small arms ammunition into the open market in conflict with government policy, Business Day newspaper said on Wednesday.

    The newspaper said a secret forensic report in 2005 showed Armscor had sold ammunition for AK-47, R-4 and R-5 rifles to Industrie Spreewerk Lubben in Germany "ostensibly for destruction and onward sale to companies in the U.S.".

    "(This) has seen the U.S. market flooded with military and police surplus ammunition from South Africa. Apparently the ammunition is openly advertised on the Internet," the newspaper said, citing a copy of the report.

    Armscor was not immediately available for comment.

    The agency, formed as part of the secretive military apparatus of apartheid-ruled South Africa, vowed to become more transparent with the advent of multi-racial democracy in 1994.

    Business Day said the ammunition sales could damage South Africa's reputation as a leader of global efforts to crack down on small arms proliferation.

    "The report contains a litany of allegations over Armscor officials exporting ammunition on the basis of expired end-user certificates for Guyana," it said, adding that it also showed Armscor officials bypassing South Africa's National Conventional Arms Control Committee.

    The newspaper said the November 2005 report by First Consulting also detailed a breach of national security in the export of Ratel infantry assault vehicles with top-secret codes and algorithms in place.

    It said in all, there were eight exports of ammunition to Germany between 1998-2005 in contravention of a cabinet decision in 1997 that all surplus ammunition should be destroyed.

    We might not be seeing much more in the way of South African surplus for a while.
  2. DMK

    DMK Well-Known Member

    Oh the horror! :uhoh:

    I should email them a pic of my stash. :D
  3. BigO01

    BigO01 Well-Known Member

    Well they didn't flood the market enough as it has dried up and I need more !
  4. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

    And so Azania rears its ugly socialist head.
  5. emitt1

    emitt1 Well-Known Member

    Makes me want to walk into my storage locker and kiss every little round.
  6. Black Majik

    Black Majik Well-Known Member

    Oh great, now it's gonna be a collectable and prices are gonna go waay up.

    Wait.... it's already happened... :D
  7. Ian Sean

    Ian Sean Well-Known Member

    I have a dozen or so SA battle packs saved up from the good old days...paid $30 each for them just 2 year ago. I see they are going for over $60 in some places.

    My FAL's will be fed.
  8. ec-10

    ec-10 Well-Known Member

    Does anybody know if the ATF could get involved in this? Could they come after people who have purchased SA ammo over the web?
  9. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Well-Known Member

    Why? It isn't like it was illegally imported or anything.
  10. markk

    markk Well-Known Member

  11. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

    Oh noes, dar interwebs!

    Now the SA ammo will have to compete with Pakistani and Eastern Bloc surplus ammunition.
  12. Leitmotif

    Leitmotif Well-Known Member

    markk: you've probably got surplus for the old R1 battle rifles. Retired after the border war.

    The problem is that our NCACC is incompetent. They never do any damn thing, and Armscor was losing tons of cash while the ammo mouldered away. So they went proactive and now the paper-pushers are pissed that their almighty process - of doing nothing - wasn't followed.
  13. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

  14. PILMAN

    PILMAN Well-Known Member

    So where can I get some of this fine ammo :D
  15. deltacharlie

    deltacharlie Well-Known Member

    what's the problem? leaglly imported, lawful product, sold on the open market?

    i used to have some dealings with S. Africa, so i've got it straight from the horses mouth. crime there is so rampant in their glorious post-aprtheit society that people have taken to builing walls around their homes, they stay off the streets at night and it is not uncommon to see a dead body sprawled out on the street each morning. most of S. Africa makes mexico look like a crimefree utopia!!

    if anything those poor folk need MORE ammo!
  16. PILMAN

    PILMAN Well-Known Member

    Would it be legal for me to have a friend ship me south african ammo if he lives in south africa?
  17. Leitmotif

    Leitmotif Well-Known Member

    PILMAN: completely illegal from our side.

    delta: Yeah, I grew up accepting as fact that no one ever leaves a door or gate unlocked... sigh. Dead bodies... I've only seen a few, it's not an everyday thing. Although with 50-51 reported murders a day, it's everyday for someone. Note I say reported, because a lot of crime goes unreported.

    However, despite the indications that we need to be armed, the cops give people endless hassles when trying to license a gun. Also they tend to charge people who use guns in self-defense with murder... usually dropped, but it's handy as an intimidation tactic.

    Main issue is an average person is limited to owning 200 rounds of ammunition for each gun, and four guns maximum. However, it is insanely difficult to license more than one. Sigh. So a lack of ammo isn't much of an issue. We produce way more than gets used.
  18. deltacharlie

    deltacharlie Well-Known Member

    maybe your government is the problem?

    pity, that.
    this is a prime example of how a peaceful peoples are oppressed from both sides (criminals and government) and should be using the "soapbox, ballot box and ammo box" in order to affect change.

    the folk i worked with from s. africa were very decent people who just wanted to (and deserved to) live in peace.

    they overthrew one form of government which was oppressing them ... why not get rid of one that won't protect you or allow you to protect yourself? (*)

    Leitmotif, stay safe.

    (*) i know, easier said than done.
  19. Headless

    Headless Well-Known Member

    One of my friends grew up in south africa, and a client of mine still has family living there. Violence situation is 'serious' there, for sure. Her brother is part of some kind of localized militia/police force apparently. She's got some crazy, CRAZY stories.
  20. Leitmotif

    Leitmotif Well-Known Member

    delta: no maybes about it, the government *is* the problem. However, since they got into power they've done less than nothing to improve the status of the generally uneducated formerly opressed black citizens who make up the vast majority of the electorate. These people believe that without the ANC it'd be back to Apartheid, and the ANC keeps up the bogeyman routine by regularly blaming Apartheid and race for everything - particularly their own lack of delivery.

    An educated, independent, informed electorate is the ANC's nightmare. Telecoms costs are high, so internet usage is low. Newspapers targetted at ANC voters spew the same racist propaganda the party does. The TV news on all of the public channels but one is controlled by the government. Lovely, no?

    Long story short: the ANC government does what it damn well feels like, and is staying where it is until the voters get educated. Which won't be anytime soon, if the ANC have anything to say about it.

    Headless: the localised militia thing is probably one of the Boeremag splinters. ANC disbanded the Boeremag, but a lot of the groups kept going in outlying areas since farm murders are such a massive bloody problem. Local militias are frowned on by the ANC.

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