Stupid range rules...

[Certaindeaf]

Some rampage shooters have gone to ranges to practice..

True. That guy they just extradited from England (I think) is thought to be the alleged leader/"mastermind" of some kooks found practicing at a gravel pit here in Oregon. They got life.

 

[Sam1911]

At the PA Game Commission range where I shoot, there is a six round limit for pistol shooters. There is a five round limit for rifles. No shotshells allowed. Slugs are OK. Paper targets only. Clean up your paper. Clean up your brass.
Personally, I have no problem with the rules. I have no need to load more than five rounds into any rifle that I shoot or six into any pistol or revolver.
Rapid fire - there is no posted restriction about time - for me means five rounds in ten seconds. Other people shoot faster...hit less, at least where I am. You fellas may be better shots.
The problem that I have is not so much with the range rules but with people who don't read them.
Pete

Ahhh, the good ol' PA Game Commission ranges.

While most would consider their rules absurdly restrictive, as odd as it is to say so, they almost make sense if you watch the kind of stuff that often goes on there. Kind of like gun pre-kindergarten when the teacher's stepped out of the room!

Fortunately, PA is blessed with an amazing assortment of shooting clubs of many different kinds. Almost certainly there is one within driving distance of wherever you are which specializes in whatever kind of shooting you want to do, and has rules suitable to that discipline.

Saturday I spent the morning at one club shooting a Garand-only CMP match where "rapid fire" consists of 10 rounds fired in 70 seconds.

Sunday I ran my club's monthly IDPA match where shooters were expected to put accurate hits on target several rounds per second, while moving.

Different strokes for different folks! (And sometimes for the same folks, too! )

It is needlessly frustrating to try and practice a skill set at a range not designed for that kind of practice and/or where it is discouraged.

 

[Greybeard]

Quote: "Certain things are understandable - "no headshots" rules make a certain amount of sense if the targets are suspended and the hanging system might be harmed by shots that go too high."

Our little association range has never had such a rule, nor a 2-seconds between shots policy. But, admittedly, it resulted in more damage to the target carriers than I care to think about. For 16 years, I fixed things for free, rationalizing "just a part of what people pay for with their annual memberships".

But, that was changed a few months ago with a letter to all of the members, notification on our web site and new signage on the firing line: "Shoot target carrier string: $75. Shoot steel cable: $175. Please don't."

 

[dodge]

At my range we had to modify the rules due to some people coming in before 7:00 a.m. and just shooting their ARs/AKs as fast as they could pull the trigger. Then they also shot up the target frames. We now ban the mag dumps and no shooting before 8:00 a.m. This range is located right on the boro limits in matter of fact we have a 99 year lease to the property from the boro. We also had to ban the larger calibers (i.e. 50 BMG and 416 Barrett) and the use of tannerite. We don't have any problems with double taps just people doing the 30 round mag dump. Just keep in mind that all it takes is a few bad apples to ruin it for everybody. When we reset the rules it was talked of putting a time limit between shots but I was able to keep that from happening. I must add that we only allow paper targets due to the fact of the junk (car parts, paint cans, plastic bottles, etc.)that has been left there by uncaring individuals

 

[Black Butte]

My range doesn't allow double-taps. You can only shoot paper and must wait a second between shoots. It's frustrating, but the next closest range is a significant distance away and charges $20 per shooter per hour. At least at the first range, I can stay a few hours for my 20 bucks.

 

[captain awesome]

the range I am (but soon won't be any longer) a member of has a some dumb rules. One in particular really pisses me off. Scenario;
I am walking into the range with my hands FULL. Carrying a bolt action rifle with a box mag in one hand by itself because I don't have a case it fits in. The bolt is open, it is obviously empty. One range officer physically blocked my entrance and told me I have to remove the magazine immediately, and made a bid deal out f the fact that I had it pointed straight up?!? There was no where to set my stuff down and no where to put the magazine. What difference does it make? What if it didn't have a removable magazine? Many rifles don't. That was just the last straw. I had to set it all down in the dirt, to appease that clown. There are a lot of less highroad words that I have called him, he has always been a pain in the butt; getting into peoples business and touching fire arms without permission. Most of them there seem to have that attitude, but he is the worst. They have always treated me like I am some kind of dangerous trouble maker, I assume because I am younger than most there, and it is insulting. I follow all their rules without question, just like everyone else. Every time I bring a new shooter there they leave with a bad taste in their mouth. I won't be renewing my membership there.

 

[jmr40]

Anytime you see a stupid rule you can bet there is a reason for it. Somebody, at some time did something stupid and they had to make up a special rule to cover it.

It may have been something that happened so long ago that no one can any longer remember why, but once written, rules are hard to change.

I'm fortunate. The range where I shoot has some pretty common sense rules. In fact it wouldn't hurt for things to be a little more strict. It is unmonitored. We police ourselves and have very few problems.

 

[happygeek]

Explaining rules increases compliance, imho. If a range is going to heavily restrict what people can or can't do, then they should explain why.
Certain things are understandable - "no headshots" rules make a certain amount of sense if the targets are suspended and the hanging system might be harmed by shots that go too high.
Here's an idea about the whole "human face" situation - I took a tactical class in which the instructor had custom made targets with a simple black rectangular black box around what he called the "ICOC" - intra cranial ocular cavity. The premise is that this is the part of the head where quickly stopping the assailant is most likely.
Here are my questions:

Are "bowling pin" shaped targets (vaguely humanoid) prohibited, too, or are they different enough to pass muster?

I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about the Paul Bunyan Sportsman Club in western WA. I seem to recall when I first joined there that the reason they specified 8 rounds was due to the M1. Presumably they would have set the limit lower if not for the M1's en bloc clip size, and the M1 was on their minds when they set the rules since they run CMP matches on a regular basis.

I'm sure the no rapid fire rule is due to idiots shooting completely over the targets. They put up baffles on their pistol range and the scary thing is the there are numerous holes in said baffles. They have a pretty big hill as a backstop, but if someone shoots high enough to hit their baffle then they're just about shooting high enough to clear the berm and hill ... and there's no impact area at Paul Bunyan like there is at Fort Lewis or YTC.

They've had an issue with idiots shooting things like Dracos on the pistol range because ... well, I guess because it's legally a pistol and some people don't stop to think. They don't allow .50 BMG for obvious reasons, ditto for tracer rounds. I've seen a good number of brush fires started by tracers at YTC, I don't fault them one bit for that rule.

I do wish they'd make an exception to their '1 round per second' rule for 22LRs, but that's really my only complaint. They only charge $90 a year for unlimited access from I think 09:00 - 22:00 7 days a week, and they have lighting so you can shoot after dark during the winter months here in WA.

They don't allow facial features but they have zero issue with blank silhouettes, Appleseed style targets, Army Alt C Qual targets, etc. They allow rifle shooting from positions, they allow 22LR rifle shooting on the pistol range, their booths on the pistol range are set up so you can open up the front and shoot prone out of them, it's a very nice range at a price you can't beat with a stick. I'm too busy being grateful they haven't sold the land to a developer to complain about their 8 round rule.

 

[gfanikf]

Anytime you see a stupid rule you can bet there is a reason for it. Somebody, at some time did something stupid and they had to make up a special rule to cover it.

It may have been something that happened so long ago that no one can any longer remember why, but once written, rules are hard to change.

I'm fortunate. The range where I shoot has some pretty common sense rules. In fact it wouldn't hurt for things to be a little more strict. It is unmonitored. We police ourselves and have very few problems.

Reminds me about a rule that popped up at my range one day. I would always joke about them having to deal with someone claiming slide fire wasn't rapid fire. Sure enough one day I randomly see a new sign up saying no bump or slide fire stocks. I asked if it finally had happened...to which they said it did.

 

[checkmyswag]

This thread makes me want to go out and appreciate my range. Appreciate via the shooting method.

 

[moto_stevo]

How about a range that won't let you shoot pistol any closer than 20 yards..... Right against the berm

 

[splithoof]

The range I frequent most often requires members to have a valid USFS campfire permit for fires when camping. Because the ground is very hard and rocky, shoes are recommended. Most members wear clothing in the summer to avoid sunburn, and must when using the club benchrests. Tannerite is prohibited, but full-auto, SBR's, and suppressors are all OK with proper paperwork. Alcohol is not permitted in any shooting areas. Your brass is your own, and you may scrounge as much as you can find. The facility is open 24-7, but you must supply your own lighting, etc. The 1,000 yard pad is to be reserved ahead of time, but the 600 yard range is open unless a club scheduled event is planned. There are some nice concrete benches under a metal roof, and an area for whatever else position you wish to assume. Some other range areas for practical, black powder, pistol, archery, etc.

 

[Warp]

The range I frequent most often requires members to have a valid USFS campfire permit for fires when camping. Because the ground is very hard and rocky, shoes are recommended. Most members wear clothing in the summer to avoid sunburn, and must when using the club benchrests. Tannerite is prohibited, but full-auto, SBR's, and suppressors are all OK with proper paperwork. Alcohol is not permitted in any shooting areas. Your brass is your own, and you may scrounge as much as you can find. The facility is open 24-7, but you must supply your own lighting, etc. The 1,000 yard pad is to be reserved ahead of time, but the 600 yard range is open unless a club scheduled event is planned. There are some nice concrete benches under a metal roof, and an area for whatever else position you wish to assume. Some other range areas for practical, black powder, pistol, archery, etc.

Why can't I have one of these nearby?

 

[leadcounsel]

At Peyton

Leadcounsel, come on over to Camp Salerno, Afghanistan. The 3/101 "Rakkasans" need your expert legal advise and I guarantee the target rich environment! Plus the range is unlimited and the targets shoot back!! I been deployed for 7 years now.

I believe we spent the day together at our 3/101 HQ in Iraq back in 08... Can't believe you've been deployed for 7 years! Stay safe!

As far as rules, I'm a rule-follower. However, rules for the sake of rules at the cost of common sense just drives me nuts!

 

[warhwkbb]

Leadcounsel,
I'm also a member at the Paul Bunyan range in Puyallup. During the orientation by "Bubba the groundskeeper", it was explained that the city demanded the 8 shot limit as part of their lease; yet later he said they owned the land outright

These rules don't bother me so much on the rifle range, but they really cut into the quality of defensive pistol practice.

BTW Leadcounsel, thanks for showing me the range. I really appreciated test driving a range before joining. I wish I could have done that with Black Diamond before forking over $240.

 

[Pete D.]

Yeah

Sam:

While most would consider their rules absurdly restrictive, as odd as it is to say so, they almost make sense if you watch the kind of stuff that often goes on there. Kind of like gun pre-kindergarten when the teacher's stepped out of the room!

Fortunately, PA is blessed with an amazing assortment of shooting clubs of many different kinds. Almost certainly there is one within driving distance of wherever you are which specializes in whatever kind of shooting you want to do, and has rules suitable to that discipline.

The Game Commission range is a mile from my house as the crow flies. Very convenient to say the least. That is an astute comment about the teacher stepping out of the room. Interestingly, the PGC has stepped up enforcement of its policies recently. Two of the last four times that I have been shooting there, a team of officers has shown up to check on shooters.
I am, also, a member at North Mt. Sportsman's Club near Hughesville...a marvelous facility and much more cared for and about than the local range.

Pete

 

[parsimonious_instead]

Sam:


The Game Commission range is a mile from my house as the crow flies. Very convenient to say the least. That is an astute comment about the teacher stepping out of the room. Interestingly, the PGC has stepped up enforcement of its policies recently. Two of the last four times that I have been shooting there, a team of officers has shown up to check on shooters.
I am, also, a member at North Mt. Sportsman's Club near Hughesville...a marvelous facility and much more cared for and about than the local range.

Pete

It's my understanding that the PA State-run ranges limit rounds loaded to (hopefully) help extend the life of the target backers that they provide.
They've recently required an annual "shooting pass" to be able to use these facilities. Supposedly even this small fee has given the PA Game Commission the revenue to improve range maintenance and has deterred at least some of the riff-raff.

 

[Trent]

If you use a bolt action the action must be worked upside down to "keep people from shooting past the backstop"

This one has me scratching my head. You're supposed to turn the rifle over and work the bolt upside down somehow? How the hell does THAT work?

 

[340PD]

I am an RSO/instructor at a state of the art indoor range co-owned by four different police departments. Classrooms, free cleaning supplies, coffee in the lobby. We are open to the public on a limited basis. We do employ some rules that may not seen to make sense to a lot of people. No silhouette targets are among them. Mostly this is because we must avoid ceiling or floor hits. Tall targets change angles and we do not want to lose our shooting privileges because of unnecessary damage to a police range. Keeping the target parallel to the floor has really helped. A great side benefit to this rule is a very well mannered clientele. Lot's of couples, groups of women, and family's with new shooter kids. The place has become similar to a Friday night bowling alley without the beer. You want to save your brass? We will make sure you leave with more than you came in with. Most of our RSO's lend our customers our own personal guns if the customer wants to try one out. Many times I have seen a customer bring a locked gun with the key left at home and a RSO will hand them a gun to shoot to avoid a drive home for a key. Everyone leaves in a good mood. Easily, the best job I have ever had.

 

[jmorris]

My range has some stupid range rules. I can livewith them, but they are just dumb.

First, the dumbest. Silhouette targets cannot have ANY human features.... I was spoken to yesterday for taking large paper and drawing with a marker literally a silhouetted that had eyes and a mouth. I was told not to do that. Are you kidding me!?

Kidding you for being told to follow the owners rules? You said yourself "ANY human features" then you ignore them and draw eyes and mouth on your target.? If you don't like their rules play somewhere else but please don't tell the owner of a private business what rules he can have on his property.

 

[Ryanxia]

Aside from the safety rules and don't destroy the posts that they put free backboards on for us, my range doesn't have any. I wouldn't be a part of any of those stupid rules. Just my opinion.

 

[SSN Vet]

The Rod & Gun club I belong to put an RFID card activated gate in last year. All members had to pony up $10 as a one time fee for a photo i.d. RFID card.

They had a combo lock on the gate b4. And though they changed the combo every year, I suspect that a lot of members freely gave it out to their friends.

Now they have a record of who's card was used to swipe in and out, with a time record for each use. Can't tell if there's been fewer instances of foolish damage to the facilites or not.... but in general the idea was well received and the gate cards work slick as buttah.

I love this club.... never crowded... every one is courtious and friendly... facilities are safe... brass buckets are first come first serve... DIY range master system...

The few rules we do have make good sense and are there for a bonified safety purpose....

Only paper targets mounted on the fixed target boards (prevents ricochets and keeps shots hitting the burms). Yeah, I'd like to plug some bowling pins, but there's a condo complex next door and this restriction keeps all lead on the range.

No full auto. (doesn't affect me)

No gun handling of any kind during cease fires.

 

[ErikO]

Thankfully the worst I have to deal with is that at the indoor range I tend to go to they max out rifles at 5.56. Not such a big deal, but now they have a Deagle with an 8" barrel on the rental wall. I make the point that 300BLK out of a 10.5" barrel has a much lower impact on the backstop than that hand cannon.

Nothing but crickets...

At least they don't sell 7.62-rated suppressors or I'd be really scratching my head.

 

[Skribs]

Oh I'm definitely waiting anxiously until I can afford to set up my own private range. Currently I have an indoor range nearby that lets me do whatever I want, as long as it's safe, in my lane, and the rounds are going <2000 FPS, and several outdoor ranges that have stupid rate-of-fire limits. I want to be able to shoot how I plan to in a defensive situation, without worry about other people on the range.

 

[Esoxchaser]

My 12 yr old son has literally 10's of thousands of rounds of handgun, long gun and shotgun under his belt. He has also been hunting since he was 9. The kid is exceptionally cognizant of not only his actions, but the actions of those around him. He is safer than most adults, and is welcomed by all my friends to hunt over their dogs. Yet we have a range nearby that won't let him shoot because they have a "must be 16 yrs old" rule. Which in particularly stupid given that one can hunt well before that.