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Swiss Powder compare

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by BlackNet, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. BlackNet

    BlackNet Well-Known Member

    I did some photo compare on Swiss powder tonight. I have 2F, 3F, 4F and Null B.

    Would like to open by showing the sizing chart
    from the companies website.

    Swiss Factory tour
    Swiss Booklet

    First up is a group shot.

    Ok 2F!
    Here we can clearly see the polishing that makes Swiss powder very top quality.

    Next is 3F! (This is what most shoot if I am not mistaken.)
    I have to admit that 3F is way more uniform than 2F is.

    Here is what most use in flintlocks for priming the pan, 4F.

    Now if we compare 3F with 4F we get more of the same but finer.
    In fact at first glance 3F and 4F appeared to be the same.
    I have to admit, I have used 3F in the pan of flintlocks to prime with, it does work.

    Ok last up we have Null B, which is also priming powder :what:
    After looking at this item very closely I think I will switch over to using that instead of 4F. :neener:

    If we compare 4F with Null B.

    :D Yea I am definitely going to switch. :D

    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  2. Rattus58

    Rattus58 Well-Known Member

    Neva heard of null B before.... then again... gettin any black in this place is a gift.. :D
  3. Lunie

    Lunie Well-Known Member

    Excellent photos, and thank you for showing us the comparison.
  4. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Well-Known Member

  5. BlackNet

    BlackNet Well-Known Member

    Coolness. Will have to add that to my next order. 1F and 1 1/2F. I have been considering doing a Goex vs Swiss.
  6. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Well-Known Member

    Also take a look at Olde Eynsford from Goex.
    It is their latest effort at a premium powder, replacing Express which was dropped when Hodgdon bought the mill.
  7. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Well-Known Member

    Great information!!!:) I can see why you are considering changing over to the Null B powder for your priming pan. Have you changed from GOEX to Swiss powders for your main charge? How did that affect your ballistics? Better or worse?
  8. Mike OTDP

    Mike OTDP Well-Known Member

    Swiss powder typically runs 10% more efficient than Goex. Certainly with 3F, you can take your Goex load, cut 10% from it, and load with Swiss - and be very, very close.
  9. BlackNet

    BlackNet Well-Known Member

    I would like to point to TWO documents.

    First being KIK. on page 13 note the velocity test results.

    Second being Swiss, note the overall openness and the 'cut the BS' approach.

    Regardless of the smoke/mirror and 'trade secrets' that I kept running into with Goex I did find the following. There also has been rumors, claims and so forth of using a 'blend' as well. I have to question if they really do know themselves.
    While Swiss we have the following.
    Also worth note. the PDF and site I posted at the start of the thread clearly shows the process detail of the charcoal, clearly identifying what type of wood it is, where it is grown and that it is all processed 'in house' therefore making it as uniform and consistent as possible. We even have

    The Acetone test results in Swiss powder using creosote oil and Goex using very little if any. Creosote usage is the key to 'moist burning', i.e. damp, high humidity locations.

    Just for the very disclosure and forthcoming from Swiss vs Goes alone makes one want to use Swiss exclusively.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  10. mykeal

    mykeal Well-Known Member

    Actually, I want to use the least expensive powder that gives me the performance I want.

    Disclosure? Forthcoming? Gobbledegook.

    How about that phrase in the banner just under the brand name on the front of the container? How do you ignore that in favor of 'disclosure'.
  11. unspellable

    unspellable Well-Known Member

    BP brands

    I feel lucky to find BP period. Being able to chose between brands is beyond my wildest dreams.

    Most of today's BP will not produce a load that is "in regulation" for BP cartridge double rifles. Swiss has the reputation of being the only one that will.
  12. BlackNet

    BlackNet Well-Known Member

    There are several powder companies that you can order from and have shipped to your door via Fedex or UPS. Currently Fedex requires a signature delivery while UPS does not (for hazmat). Some places you can order as little as 5 pounds but the max you can order is 50 pounds.

    The shipment that I just received was from powderinc.com
  13. boommer

    boommer Well-Known Member

    Goex has softer fouling than Swiss.Swiss has more energy per grain,but Goex likes more compression than Swiss, so more grains per load to gain your energy on Swiss, But Swiss will still end up top for velocity and harder to control fouling, so more blow tubing,grease cookie or one more grease grove on your bullet on custom mold from Brooks or such..I'm a Swiss guy but dont rule out Goex. KIK powder is a good powder but I'll go to Goex first because softer fouling and not as much energy gain.
  14. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Well-Known Member

    Has anyone chronographed and compared the different powders side by side? I would guess the proof would be which powder provides the more consistent accuracy in a rifle or revolver.
  15. BlackNet

    BlackNet Well-Known Member

    Yes, if you goto the 'swiss booklet' link I provided on page 32
  16. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Well-Known Member

    According to this data it would appear that the Swiss powder company is using the proper procedures for manufacturing a more consistent powder. I would like to see some more testing comparing these powders in individual rifled bores though before switching over from GOEX. Is it just the purity of the water and the way they make their charcoal that GOEX needs to improve upon in order to attain this type of consistency in a rifled bore?

    And are there any long range black powder cartridge shooters who still use GOEX and haven’t switched over to the more consistent Swiss powders?
  17. BlackNet

    BlackNet Well-Known Member

    polishing, charcoal quality (swiss makes it in house with one type of wood, goex contracts out for that and some reports of using a blend but not 100% sure on that), creosote addition in the swiss, formula weight, also it really makes a difference in the machinery they use.

    Another look is here. http://www.laflinandrand.com/page3.htm and esp note the KIK listing they have some detailed info in this as well.
  18. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Well-Known Member

    Why would creosote be a good ingredient to add to black powder? When I was researching the loads for my Podewils-Lindner (circa 1860~) the official Bavarian gunpowder recipe was alderwood charcoal, saltpeter, and sulfer, and the references concerning the other powders tested were relating to variations of the ratio and tests with willow charcoal. This thread sounds like a German beer purity argument.
  19. BlackNet

    BlackNet Well-Known Member

    Creosote is a product that is in wood already.
    Ahh yes the 'willow charcoal' context. FYI most gunpowder is not made with 'willow'. Also 'willow' charcoal is often not made from willow tree's.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  20. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Well-Known Member

    There have been other discussions on other boards, mostly double rifle boards, being that a double rifle needs consistency in their ‘regulation’ that have gone on for pages arguing over the type of wood used in charcoal and the process used. A real eye opener in that I never realized how important charcoal was in this process of making black powder.

    I wish he would have delved more into the making of the potassium nitrate and the effects that would have on consistency back in the past. All that is shown is a big bag of potassium nitrate I mean how did they do it back then? Any good web-sites for this process?
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013

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