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The ACLU, an idea

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by Caliper_Mi, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Well-Known Member

    "If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns."

    If licensing and registration of cars was as discretionary and punitive as the gun licensing and registration laws that get "A" grades from Handgun Control Inc. (aka Brady Campaign), there would be denouncements by ACLU (and evryone else) for blatant violation of due process and equal justice.

    There is a cost/benefit justification for car control laws, from driver safety to financial responsibility. The Centers for Disease Control 2003 and the National Research Council 2004 could find no evidence that there was any benefit from any of the gun control laws so far. Guns and cars are different.

    Gun laws are based on "crime control" but controlling gun crime by piling restrictions on legal gun owners is like controlling prostitution by piling restrictions on marriage licenses.
  2. Lou McGopher

    Lou McGopher Well-Known Member

    I'll bet the ACLU has a higher percentage of members who are lawyers. That probably has something to do with it.

    This leads to the next question.... how to get more lawyers to join the NRA?
  3. squinty

    squinty Well-Known Member

    For a long time, it seemed to me that liberals (civil rights activists, civil libertarians, whoever) cared about every amendment in the bill of rights except the second, and conservative cared only about the second amendment exclusively. In the 90s and early 00s I heard many a conservative gun owner pontificate about the absurdity of Miranda rights, warrants, allowing criminals to have lawyers, etc. Rulings against unlawful search and seizure were seen by my conservative friends as "giving rights to criminals" - they only started to care about fourth amendment rights when those rights were violated as part of a gun seizure.

    I'm a member of both the ACLU and the NRA. I like the whole Bill of Rights. I would love to see the ACLU revise their opinion of the second amendment, to bring it more in line with their opinion of other individual rights spelled out (or implied) byt the BOR. Not sure it will happen, but pro-gun ACLU members ought to agitate, and let the organisation know that it's stance on gun ownership is out of touch with some of it's membership.
  4. clem

    clem Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, I was missunderstood. Let me repeat myself.

    "Joining the ACLU is joining the Communist Party!":fire:
  5. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member


    Changing the ACLU's position is the objective.
  6. clem

    clem Well-Known Member

  7. squinty

    squinty Well-Known Member

    The no fly list is a good example of this right/left disconnect. The link Clem posted berated the ACLU for opposing the no-fly list...liberals railed against the no fly list for years as an unconstitutional violation of civil rights, restricting citizens' freedom to travel based on suspicion alone, with no due process, no chance to appeal or face one's accuser's. Conservatives claimed this was a liberal plot to aid terrorism. To quote the site Clem linked:
    "The ACLU has opposed almost everything the government has done to fight terrorism! From the no-fly list to stronger border control, the ACLU has been there to oppose it....in order to grant immunity and protection for sworn enemies of America to carry out their assault on America."
    Now liberals are claiming that people on the no-fly list should be barred from purchasing guns, and using the same specious argument - why should we arm TERRORISTS. So now conservatives are up in arms, and have finally rediscovered civil liberties, and suddenly, after eight years supporting it, they realize why the no-fly list is such a despotic tool. Could it be that the ACLU is interested in protecting American citizens from the excesses of government, rather than enabling terrorists? I'll say it again, they are wrong wrong wrong about the second amendment. But they aren't the communist party. There is still an American Communist party, and an American Socialist Workers party. They are separate organizations from the ACLU, the ACLU is not them. To answer the question posed at the top of "Stop the ACLU," to wit :

    "Terrorists Have Rights, Too ?"

    -no, but accused terrorists do. Just because the government makes a claim about you, that doesn't mean it's true, and mere assertion isn't a good enough reason to circumvent anyone's civil rights to habeas corpus, due process, or any of the other legal constructs (including the second amendment) designed to protect us from tyranny.

    So I'm going to write a letter to the ACLU stating that I disagree with their interpretation of the second amendment, and urging them to reconsider in light of the Heller (and hopefully McDonald) decision, and suggest that I'll withdraw my support if they stick to their bs "collective right" definition.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  8. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    I think we'll get more traction with the state ACLU than national so I hope everyone that intends to send something to the national organization puts at least as much effort into their state.
  9. JoeSlomo

    JoeSlomo Well-Known Member

  10. squinty

    squinty Well-Known Member

  11. jeffmack

    jeffmack Well-Known Member

    How about you say you are a performance artist? Your medium is writing your name with a Tommy gun on plywood. Yet you cannot afford all the fees, and thus your First Amendment rights are in jeopardy!:D

    I kind of like squinty's views, myself.
  12. Extremely Pro Gun

    Extremely Pro Gun Well-Known Member

    I dont care if they love guns. They wont get a cent. This is what the NRA is for.
  13. Fleetwood_Captain

    Fleetwood_Captain Well-Known Member

    Funny how the ACLU would condone registration of guns in the same manner has cars.

    I wonder what the ACLU would have to say about the registration and licensing of typewriters and modems...
  14. squinty

    squinty Well-Known Member

    You just talked me into a career change! Maybe I can win a first amendment suit to avoid paying for the NFA tax stamp!
    Seriously, that would be some awesome performance art.
  15. IllHunter

    IllHunter Well-Known Member

    I'll send money...

    as soon as i see their filed amicus brief for McDonald. It's the same for the democratic states attorney of Illinois, daughter of the democratic Illinois Senate Leader. Ms Madigan. I'll vote for her or him (not my district) when her name joins the other AG's brief. The second amendment is my litmus test for politicians and "Constitutional Lawyers, Scholars and Teachers". Any bs about " collective right" or "reasonable restrictions" is an automatic failing grade.Prevarication about "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" will not be tolerated. During the vetting of candidates prior to our Feb2 primary, I asked each and every candidate this. "Given Heller, assuming McDonald finds Chicago's ban unconstitutional and assuming mayor Daley acts (doesn't act) as mayor Fenty did, how would you respond?" The only good answer was from congress candidates "cut off all funding to Illinois" and from governor candidates "call out the national Guard because the people will riot" and cut all funding to all Chicago programs.The senate candidates all foamed at the mouth and muttered their support for the second' Mark Kirk was asked why his name wasn't on the congressional brief and he had "no knowledge" that's why I don't support him. His NRA rating "F".:eek:

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