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The concept of 380 vs more powerful rounds

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by kokapelli, Dec 4, 2012.

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  1. 3twelves

    3twelves member

    Shooter hiding behind said trash can shooting at you is not a threat to you? When shooting starts people tend to take cover behind stuff. A .380 wont even go through a car door reliably....
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012

    MICHAEL T Well-Known Member

    Wow!!!! Till I found the internet gun boards. I didn't know a 38spl, 380, 32, wasn't any good for self defense . I guess all the people in this country with one of those calibers for a carry or home defense pistol. Should be told to run to next gun buy back and turn them in as they will never work for Self Defense.Better to have a free turkey that a 38spl 380 or 32. Pity the poor person who just used a 25 auto to defend thenselves. They need to be lock up as mentally incompetent. To have even considered using one of those .
  3. 56hawk

    56hawk Well-Known Member

    Here is another study of actual shootings: http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866 Below is the graph that I found the most important. It shows the percentage of shootings where someone was not stopped after being shot. The important jump is in going from 32 to 380.

  4. JR47

    JR47 Well-Known Member


    Try here for .380 ammo that equals 9mm. They have a listing of a lot of the .380 on the market.

    I'd also like to mention that Marshall is a cream-puff compared to Fackler, who has to be the rudest, and most arrogant and condescending man that I've ever spoken to.

    Who really cares what anyone elses' opinion is? It's just that, OPINION. There is no reason to believe that it holds any more truth than anyone elses opinion.

    So, one feels as though a 9mm is the minimum caliber that they will carry. Fine. Are your circumstances the same as everyone else? Of course they aren't. So, WHY should anyone push their opinions as truth?

    If power, penetration, capacity, and size of hole is all important, we should be CCWing a Browning M2.

    No matter what you carry, or how vociferously you defend your choice, no caliber is 100% effective.

    For those who somehow refuse to actually read Marshall & Sanow's books, the percentages were from stops with ONE shot, and in the TORSO. No head shots, no CNS stops. Unless one is dumb enough to only fire once, they don't necessarily apply.

    Let's actually try to have a discussion without misquoting facts, and drawing ineffective opinions from those so misquoted facts.

    Want to carry a .22 long rifle pistol? Or a .500 S&W derringer? It will ALWAYS beat a good argument with the Bad Guy. Especially when his opinion is that the gun in his hand beats your irrefutable statements.:D:D
  5. weblance

    weblance Well-Known Member

    Your words... right?
  6. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    I think a .32 CAN work, but I think that barring FMJ rounds you're going to run the risk of underpenetration (i.e. doesn't reach vitals), and with FMJ rounds you have a significantly smaller wound profile than with an expanded 9. So if you're wanting to rely on a physiological stop instead of psychological, there are definitely reasons why the 9 is better than the .32.

    I should also point out that people didn't start thinking of handgun calibers as "weak" because of internet forums. The reason the .45 ACP was popular over a hundred years ago is because the previous cartridge wasn't considered to be effective enough. The FBI tests (which resulted in the .40 S&W being created and the advancement in 9mm ammunition today) were based on failure to stop in the field, not because an internet commando said "you use 9mm lolz". So don't blame this on the internet or forums.
  7. 3twelves

    3twelves member

    Yah, and I could also go bear hunting with a .22lr but I won't because I want to come home in one piece.
  8. 3twelves

    3twelves member


    Did I mention .380 ammo costs as much sometimes more than 9mm?
  9. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    I like how when the .380 failed to expand, it penetrated just as deep as the 9mm that did expand. And on every other one, the 9mm expanded just as much, if not more.

    very good comparison considering it's the same brand and line of ammo.
  10. 3twelves

    3twelves member

    That's not even getting into the +p, +p+ offerings to make it fair.
  11. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Well-Known Member


    If we're talking about an active shooter then it's a gunfight, and that sort of thing is exceedingly rare. Why would this guy be shooting at me unprovoked?

    You're presenting a lot of data that we already know, so I'm at a loss to understand your purpose. I would never argue that a .380 has as much ballistic power as a 9mm. I would will argue that in the right hands with properly loaded FMJs it is an adequate SD round.

    I'm never surprised that whenever these caliber wars blaze up, nobody states that he's willing to take a bullet or three or ten fired from a cartridge he poo-poos as totally inadequate to prove his point.
  12. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    Just because I won't stand in front of any caliber, doesn't mean I would want to stand behind it in a SD situation, either. The big reason I think the .38/.380 are sort of the "threshold" is because when you compare a 9mm to a .45, you're generally comparing a 0.65" hole to a 0.77" hole (or something similar). With .380 vs. 9, you're comparing a 0.35" hole to 0.65" hole. That's a much bigger gap.

    I'm not denying that the .380 can stop an attacker, or that many people will move out of the way regardless of whether I have a .380 or a 9. However, I would much rather have a 9 at my fingertips to stop the threat.
  13. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Well-Known Member

    My 95 percent carry gun is a Sig P238 in .380.

    I know I can conceal the weapon no matter what I wear. I am aware of my surroundings at all times and if need be, I would rather safely disengage from a conflict than actively engage in one. If...and only if I have to, I have 7 rounds at my disposal to stop the threat, or at the very least, give me time to retreat to a safer position. And yes, the smart man lives to fight another day.

    Do I feel handicapped? Not in the least. There are times that I do feel the want- not necessarily need, to carry a larger pistol, but then I always come back to the Sig .380. It seems that I prefer comfort in my older age.

    At home it is a different story. I choose my Mossy 930 or any one of the more effective offerings at my disposal.
  14. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    Redlg, you could get a Sig P938, almost the exact same size, and have 9mm instead.

    What gun you choose has nothing to do with how you escape from conflict, but everything to do with what happens if you fail to escape from conflict. It's just like capacity or anything like that. "Well I have a 0.2% chance of being attacked on Main Street and a 0.1% chance of being attacked on Adam Street, so I need more firepower on Main Street". Well, in both cases, you might be attacked by the same people. So why do you need more firepower if attacked on Main Street?
  15. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Well-Known Member

    Except there are some 9mm loadings that can match some .40S&W loadings (obviously you are getting into +P or +P+ versus standard).
  16. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Well-Known Member

    Using that rationale means that I should just carry a Mossburg 930 12for ga semi auto IWB. eh?
  17. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    The amount of firepower you need IF attacked has nothing to do with the chance of being attacked. Of course there is always a compromise, especially in pistols, but if your rationale for using a weaker caliber is "I might not get attacked, so I don't need the firepower of the bigger one", then you are polluting the decision of which weapon to carry by adding in factors that don't affect the encounter.

    Like I said, if you can carry a 238, you can carry a 938. The size difference between the two is miniscule, meaning you can carry a 938 just as easily, and have a much better performing cartridge.
  18. kokapelli

    kokapelli Well-Known Member

    Well, not exactly because the 938 has significantly more felt recoil than the 238.
  19. 3twelves

    3twelves member

    Are you going to notice a little more recoil in a SD scenario? NO
    You might not even notice you have been shot in a SD scenario.
  20. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    I haven't even noticed much difference in recoil between the two. The 938 beats up my hand a lot less than my LCP, because it fits better and has a bit more heft to it. That said, after some rough analysis on hit percents and number of assailants on this forum, I won't carry anything with less than 10 rounds in the magazine.
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