The Joys of Higher Education

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I am not saying that all educated people are open minded, nor am I saying all uneducated people are close minded, but you cannot make a gereralization that more educated people are not as open minded. In fact I have always noticed the opposite. People that possess the mental facilities to be successful in higher education usually have an open and analytical mind.
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You just made a generalization.
 
Is that what you do Penguin?
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To a small degree, yes. I think people should be able to back up what they say. If they make a comment like "90% of the people on welfare are black" (as someone did in a pvt message to me) then refuse to accept contrary factual information and stick to their original incorrect statement I tend to take that attitude. More often I believe most of what someone says (especially if it is a personal reference or something they have more experience with) unless I know otherwise...even then I tend to look it up before I decide.
 
you cannot make a gereralization that more educated people are not as open minded
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Then you said:

People that possess the mental facilities to be successful in higher education usually have an open and analytical mind.
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So it's ok to generalize when you do it? What school of (double standards) higher learning did you attend?
 
When you talk to your prof, find out if this is a hypothetical or if it is a case he defended. Maybe he defended the guy and convinced a jury it was an accident. If he is the condescending type, the last thing he need is some lowly *student* proving him wrong.

I love when my students prove me wrong. I learn from it. We all need to keep learning, even if it means embarrasment....
 
Eyesac, did you not read where the clarifying sentence before it states "I have always noticed"and then included another clarifier "usually"..That means I am relating a person experience and not a generalization. I generalization would have been.."I have noticed the opposite, therefore all educated people ore openminded".

Sorry to confuse you so badly. I will try to use simpler sentences from now forward...I mean..."me talk plain now on".
 
Welcome to law school . . .

Hey bclark1,

Unfortunately, as a general rule, first year law school classes are still in large part about mocking/humiliating/crushing the egos of the students.

[Didn't you ever see the vintage "Paper Chase" movie :neener: ???]

You're just going through what most all attorneys experienced during their first year of law school. So chill out and please don't spend an undue amount of energy trying to show up your professors during your first year -- even if you are making a very valid and correct factual point.

Just hang in there -- 2nd and 3rd year are soooo much more intellectually satisfying than 1st year, I promise you.
 
i've noticed

that when folks grow up in an enviroment with limited eduaction escape and get some they tend to be overly enamored of it and sometimes themselves.i was once told its due to seeing what they weren't surrounded with as somehow better. The grass is always greener.On the flip side are other folks, and i fall in this group, who grow up in the other situation.I was surrounded by intellectuals and highly educated folks growing up. Father with 2 phd's and 9 languages and all his assorted cohorts and found them to be pretty self absorbed, pretentious and pretty funny to watch.As a result i made many choices that made my circle of friends not of that ilk. Life and human nature are peculiar that way
 
Change teachers or schools based off of this? Give me a break. Even with the worst case of this, sometimes you get a bad teacher. Just like with any other, you'll learn what you need to do to succeed in the class. Beyond that, get whatever else you can from him. No one grows from having only nice people who think like them around.

As far as generalizing whether those in academia are this way or that, what's the point? Why not just take each as you find them? Obviously, that's not 100% possible with any group, but what do you get out of saying that "they" are this way or that way? Probably none of us want to be approached that way.

My college career was filled with all types of professors. Some toed the line and just instructed what we needed to pass the tests. Some really opened me up in how to think critically, some did neither and made me want to die of boredom every class. I'd like to think I got something out of all of them.

Take some of those kids shooting. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised by how many open minds there are. Hard not to smile and ask for more at the range. Is for me anyway...

Good luck with school.
 
One problem I have seen in the posts and in society in general is the misconception that education equals intelligence and that education or knowledge constitute wisdom. Many uneducated people can be intelligent but have lacked opportunity for formal education and wise, based on experience is life. The school of hard knocks can do a good job of conferring wisdom, if applied well. On the other hand, many highly educated people, who also may be very intelligent, are unwise and at a complete loss in dealing with reality in life or outside their narrow viewpoint (Bill and Hillary come to mind). Intelligence affects the ability to learn, knowledge is possesion of information, wisdom is the ability to use knowledge well to accomplish good. Possession alone confers no wisdom (look at congress).
 
I am in grad school right now. The people that are around me are highly intelligent without question, but they are about as open-minded as a chunk of lead. Most of them wouldn't be capable of challenging their chosen positions if they tried. Trying to legitimately look at both sides of an issue would make their heads explode. There are exceptions, of course, but, in general, they are just as close-minded as the most ignorant out there.
 
El Teej: Some open bolt guns have enough travel that a jar with the bolt forward will set the bolt back enough to strip a round off without going back far enough to catch on the sear. That means it goes "bang." I don't know if an Uzi is one but some of the WWII guns will.
 
that's why...

I keep my mouth shut and keep my thoughts to myself most of the time in grad school. This is my third year and I realize it's not worth it. Of course there are times when I can't stand it and I speak out...but it helps me to remind myself that I'm there to learn and get the diploma, not buy into their political agenda.

Open mindedness in most places of higher education means that they can hear all points of view and listen to all perspectives except the conservative one.:rolleyes:
 
"Academic Freedom" has nothing to do with true academic freedom. Trust me on that.
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tell me about it...I've only met ONE truly open minded person who is a liberal.

She always thought she was open minded...then she went to a graduate school supported by a church denomination. She said that it wasn't until she attended school there, listened in their classes, took note of how critically they thought about issues, listened to their opinions and how truly open-minded they were that she realized she wasn't as open minded as she thought. :what:

One is all I've met.
 
Doesn't the Uzi grip safety prevent the gun from firing unless the grip safety and (I presume the manual) safeties are engaged?
 
I am not saying that all educated people are open minded, nor am I saying all uneducated people are close minded, but you cannot make a gereralization that more educated people are not as open minded. In fact I have always noticed the opposite. People that possess the mental facilities to be successful in higher education usually have an open and analytical mind. Give them good information and they will listen. Give them faulty information and they will tear you apart. They tend to have a prove it or shut up attitude and sometimes do not believe anything they cannot discern to be true on their own. That is why they do not like people like Rush who twists facts or just makes stuff up. I have a book completely devoted to things Rush said and then the truth about the same topic.
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I agree with you, Penguin. I am currently enrolled in grad school and this past week my professor started to discuss the research project we will have to do. His emphasis was not on the number of references we have, but on the quality of those references. He values studies presented in academic journals since they usually involve some type of test to prove or disprove a theory. He frowns on books that exist soley as someone's rantings.

My undergraduate education provided me with a foundation of many concepts. My graduate education is teaching me how to apply those concepts as well as showing me if they hold any water. There is a premium placed on research in most graduate programs.

I am not a big fan of generalizations or stereotypes, but the fact is we ALL make them. I have a strong disdain for "Someone said this... the guy on the radio says... I read on the internet..." Situations like that have created some tension between my fiance and I because she'll say something and I'll ask for proof. Show me an article, a study, a report... something CREDIBLE. An op-ed piece from a backwoods newspaper doesn't count. Neither does Rush's book, Al Gore's book, or anyone elses book.

I will respect an anti-gun person's wishes if they choose not to like guns. I don't expect them all to have rational reasons for it. I don't like peanut butter... just because. However, it's when people try to support their decisions with misinformation that most of us seem to get upset. I'd rather dislike something based on "just because" rather than on twisted lies, flawed statistics, and out-of-context statements.

I feel the primary benefit of higher education is that it provides people with the tools to make an informed decision. They will know where to look for information, how to organize it, and how to present it. However, just because they have these tools it doesn't mean they'll make a rational or logical decision. A gun is a tool - we can use it properly for defense and sporting purposes, or improperly for murder and violence. Of course, even the best research can be flawed and not all socially accepted practices are ethical. Eugenics is a prime example of a movement rooted in science, supported by the government, and encouraged by some of the best minds of its time.
 
History Prof said:
"Academic Freedom" has nothing to do with true academic freedom. Trust me on that.
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I wanted to elaborate more, but I was up against the clock when I made that post.

While I cannot prove it, I am convinced that there are a few positions I interviewed for that I did not get because I spoke my mind. I interviewed at a university near Dallas. I figured "This is a safe place to espouse RKBA!" Boy was I wrong! During the informal "chat" interviews, several professors asked me what I did in my spare time. I was honest. I target shoot. I clean my firearms. I belong to the NRA. This was a university where they called my dissertation "Cutting Edge." But I'm not in Dallas. I found out this place was the liberal bastion of the DFW area. Same thing happened in Wisconsin. Actually, I'm glad I didn't get that one. I grew up in the desert, so I'm glad I'm still here. I'm not complaining about where I am. I love teaching here. My current institution is about as conservative as they come. BUT, it is not a research institution, and I have to put so much into my teaching that my cutting edge dissertation is just sitting on a shelf gathering dust.:cuss: There are quite a few of us who are conservative. It seems, however, that we all get relegated to the NON-RESEARCH schools. There's academic freedom for ya. The good news is that we are doing much more to shape young peoples' minds than our liberal *research* counterparts. AND, believe it or not, we tend to get paid more than they do :neener:
 
Before I could make this point though, it was shot down and turned around for the peanut gallery to comment on, who now have their false opinions on the subject emboldened.
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In classes like this you have to assert yourself to have your opinions heard. I suggest the next time you are cut off you respond, "Excuse me. May I finish making my point before having it criticized?"

Pilgrim
 
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