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The Next Waco?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by oldfart, Sep 17, 2004.

  1. oldfart

    oldfart Well-Known Member

    From FreeRepublic.com....

    An FBI agent shot an acquaintance of a border watch group member while trying to serve an arrest warrant, FBI officials said Thursday.

    The shooting happened about 11:15 p.m. Wednesday in a grocery store parking lot in Douglas along the southeastern Arizona border with Mexico.

    According to the FBI, the agent was trying to serve an arrest warrant on Casey Nethercott of Douglas. Nethercott is a known member of Ranch Rescue, a group that works to protect private property along the southern U.S. border.

    Ranch Rescue and several other unauthorized groups have been patrolling along the border looking for illegal immigrants, raising concerns among migrants rights groups about potential abuses.

    At the time, Nethercott was with 22-year-old Kalen Riddle, also of Douglas.

    Charlene Thornton, special agent in charge of the Phoenix FBI office, said that "actions taken by Nethercott and Riddle led one of the FBI agents to fire his weapon."

    The FBI would not elaborate and said it won't release the name of the agent who fired the shot, in keeping with FBI policy.

    Riddle was airlifted to a Tucson hospital, but FBI officials did not know his condition.

    Nethercott was arrested Wednesday and is in federal custody. An FBI spokeswoman confirmed agents searched Nethercott's Douglas ranch on Thursday afternoon.

    The warrant the FBI was trying to serve alleges that Nethercott threatened Border Patrol agents.

    According to the warrant, Nethercott refused to pull over for Border Patrol agents on Aug. 31. After a slow-speed chase, the warrant said that Nethercott entered "a compound in Douglas occupied by members of Ranch Rescue." Riddle was identified as one of the people there.

    Agents said the Ranch Rescue members were heavily armed and had night vision equipment.

    After Border Patrol agents yelled for Nethercott to show his hands, the affidavit says Nethercott refused, and responded:

    "I'm going to take care of this myself, we're going to have a shootout."

    The affidavit does not say how the standoff ended.

    There was no listing for Riddle in Douglas. A phone message left Thursday at a residence listed for Nethercott was not returned.

    Nethercott, 37, has a criminal record. He was convicted of assault with a firearm in California and was on parole when he joined Ranch Rescue.

    In June, he was also found guilty by a Texas jury of felony firearm possession. The jury was deadlocked on a second charge that accused Nethercott of pistol-whipping an illegal immigrant near a Texas ranch.

    Douglas rancher Roger Barnett, who is not part of Ranch Rescue, supports the measures Nethercott took to stop illegal immigration.

    He compared the shooting of Riddle to Branch Davidians, who fought federal agents in Waco, Texas.

    "Citizens have to get out and protect themselves," Barnett said. "And this is what it leads to."

    Bold emphasis is mine but who else sees a similarity here? Does anyone see a good ending here? Can we expect more of these situations in the future?
  2. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

    Just wave some Ding Dongs or Twinkies at the compound. That usually gets the "last best hope for freedom" types attention.:D
  3. Ozendorph

    Ozendorph Well-Known Member

    I admit to being ignorant of many of the facts regarding both these cases (the one enumerated here and the Waco debacle), but it sounds as though the FBI agent had cause to arrest Nethercott, a multiple-felon and violent criminal. In the case of Waco, it's my understanding that the ATF acted solely on suspicion of weapons violations and there was no history of crime attributed to the group. In light of that point, I fail to see much of a connection between the two cases.

    Woud you say that's accurate, or am I way off?
  4. stevelyn

    stevelyn Well-Known Member

    The govt has been looking for a way to force a confrontation with RR since they've been successfully interdicting smugglers and illegal border crossers. All on private property at the request of property owners.
  5. Cacique500

    Cacique500 Well-Known Member

    I see some problems with these guys anyway...not the shining examples of responsible gun ownership we need.
  6. CentralTexas

    CentralTexas Well-Known Member

    "Unauthorized groups"

    King George would be proud. Since when do citizens need authorization to hangout on private property and make citizens arrests? As far as Twinkies go, they seem to have more backbone and principles than some of the spongecakes here...
  7. sendec

    sendec member

    Looks like he got his wish...

    Always nice to see a public servant give someone exactly what they ask for. And y'all think we dont care. Whaddya mean another Waco? More nutballs burying school buses and using balls of hay as cover? Hiding behind kids? Day after day of pseudo religious blather?

    Rules of Thumb - when a law officer flips on the blues, pull over. Dont commit felonies. When you request a gunfight, you might just get one. Dont do something that would cause your farm to be referred to as a compound.
  8. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

    Translation: Be a good sheep. Don't do or say or own anything that might go against the wishes of the Masters. Never question what is right or wrong, simply accept what you're told. And remember, if it wears a uniform or claims to represent a government it is smarter/faster/wiser/better than you.

  9. longeyes

    longeyes member

    Ranch Rescue, flawed or not, exists for only one reason: the U.S. Government will not do the job it is supposed to do--for American citizens. I
  10. Erich

    Erich Well-Known Member

    2nd Amendment, you forgot:

    "Ein Befehl, is ein Befehl"!

  11. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Well-Known Member

    Do I think this guy and his group are trouble? Yes
    Would I want them patrolling my land? No
    Do I object to others inviting them in? No
    Do I think the feds are wasting time going after them? Yes

    If a private group can enforce US laws better than the feds, the feds get nervous about it. It's their rice bowl, and they don't like anyone else eating their rice.

    But frankly, I'd be more supportive of this outfit if they targetted the real problem--lazy, vile Americans who hire the illegals. Want to have some effective vigillante action? Pose as a migrant on a street corner. When some yuppie pulls up and barks out "DOS!" hop in the truck. When he orders you to fix his garden for $2 an hour, work like a dog for him. When the day is done, politely serve him with the suit papers you have on hand for violating about five dozen state and local wage and hour laws, insurance requirements and tax laws. Cross copy all relevant state and local agencies. Do that enough and you won't need anyone patroling the border.
  12. TheDutchman

    TheDutchman Well-Known Member

    Felons have rights like the 2nd amendment. News to me I though he lost his right to bear arms after being convicted of two felonies. Also someone on paroles can be stopped and questioned at anytime. I am all for them to protect there land , but this guy just looks likes a bad apple looking for trouble.
  13. Waitone

    Waitone Well-Known Member

    I'll be willing to bet the identified FBI type is the victim of multiple reamings out. Waco cost the federales big time. Agency grandstanding is no longer vogue.

    The last, I will repeat for emphasis, the last thing the federales want is any stoopid event to occur on the border in general and related to immigration specifically. The media performed a do-it-yourself lobotomy and now is perfectly stupid about what is going on down there.

    At the start of the campaign I said the democrats had 3 issues against Bush. Job arbitrage in foreign countries. Iraq war aftermath screwups. Third is immigration. Kerry and Co fumbled one and two badly and right on que Time Mag does a cover story on the criminal alien invasion on the southern border. I don't know how both parties will shut down the Time story but they have two. What is happening on the border is explosive. The federales will do anything to make any problem go away and that includes suppression of gun fights between locals and Mexican drug runners or perhaps Arab infiltrators.

    That said, ranch rescue does not need felons carrying its water.
  14. Old Dog

    Old Dog Well-Known Member

    Another "compound"

    Ever notice how media reports always say, when reporting on folks that have encounters at their own homes with law enforcement, that the groups always live in "compounds?"

    Probably a desert ranch-style home with a shed or old barn, detached garage and a gate across the driveway ...
  15. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Well-Known Member

    I just hate it when someone just does not tell all and just blames that guy for not pulling over and after the previous incounters with the same Hog county leo's.

    Do you all remember just a couple of years ago when that same police force arrested Two guys after they were hired by a local rancher to protect his ranch after not being able to get help from the local cops and feds. Yap they took a couple of guys and held them a few days and then released them. Two folks were arrested for that even with eye witnesses that said what those tresspasser were saying was a lie.

    Does any body remembr how all that went or do you just remeber the headlines and did not care enough to see what was happening on your borders.
    Ok quiz What happened to the two ranch rescue guys that were arrested?
    Go ahead look it up instead of just going off and saying they should be locked up. I can also say the man would not of arrested them if they were not guilty as we all know the branch davidians were guilty I think they had a trial or something din't they and then burned them.

    Hey guess what That name Nethercott was the same name of the guy that was arrested back a few years ago?
    Now what do you think the chance were that they are or were trying to get him again?

    I wonder?
    kinda sounds a little like ruby ridge, cops drum up charges claim all kinds of stuff, make up lies in the press to make them selfs look great and that guy the scum of the earth. He wants protection so he retreats to safety and then they shoot some of them later.

    only part of the story we are missing is the one from ranch rescue.
    Lets here the whole story instead of the one in the paper.

    I still believe as a american you have a right to a jury of your peers and not what ever the locals or feds have to say.
  16. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

    To quote the learned sage and gun zenmeister, Tamara-san:

    "Lord, protect me from my allies" TM

  17. Old Dog

    Old Dog Well-Known Member

    Is it just me, or do I detect a distinct lack of confidence in our law enforcement agencies on this forum? Sheesh.

    I don't think the individual agencies with law enforcement and border security responsibilities down there are the problem ... the problem is is at a much higher level of government and directly stems from the federal government's unwillingness to address the situation.

    It seems to me that a lot of folks want desperately to believe that there are a bunch of loose cannon agencies and officers out there just trying to provoke confrontations ... as if that would justify what seems to be a common thread here that the government and all its minions really don't want us to have or use guns ...
  18. Waitone

    Waitone Well-Known Member

    Just for clarification of my position.

    Waco was clearly grandstanding by the bATFE. When it went total FUBAR, big brudder, the FBI, was called in to clean it up. By that time civilian leadership in the form of Clinton, Clinton, and Reno got involved and demanded the situation end, right effin' now. The civilians provided the stimulus for the stupidity that followed.

    The charlie foxtrot on the border is clearly civilian policy makers refusing to enforce the law. The grunts crawling through the dirt are doing what they are allowed to do. My guess they are far more livid than I about the situation because they see the memos and talk to the supers. I do not think the grunts are the source of the problem. I assign that responsiblity squarely on Bush's shoulders. He will pay the price if we have a terrorist hit because of his refusal to enforce the law.

    My only complaint is I wish more of the grunts would go to media without attribution and sing the story. Some have but by and large they stay quiet.
  19. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Well-Known Member

    Slow speed chase= fbi warrent= shoot bystander who was with him= what trafic laws was the border patrol trying to enforce, I did not know they were part of the highway patrol and it did not seem to me that anything in the story said they broke any border patrol laws so why were they being pulled over?

    Did they regonize him? what did he do? was there another complaint against him? come on lets start at the beginning what caused them to try and pull him over?

    If it was a illegal they would of arrested him and then released him on a promise he would show up for court, Yeah right.

    Did that lady show a weapon? I did not see that on the news, did you and if you did let us know please!
    Maybe she had one of those baby weapons in her hand like weaver did?
    that was justification enough back then!
  20. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

    From what I've read oveer the last half-dozen years or so, LEO attitudes about defending one's own ranch along the border varies with the local Sheriff's views. Some are hostile to what they see at threats to their authority; others seem to be cooperative.

    The most hostility seems to come when outsiders come in to assist a rancher. Pressure on sheriffs also comes from pro-alien groups, and often the local newspaper editors take the pro-alien stance. (IMO, these editors are the same sorts as those who support gun control--again, from what I've read.)

    The Border Patrol agents, under the law, can stop anybody, any time, to check citizenship or possible smuggling of aliens or drugs. I don't know if the agents in this instance knew Nethercott by sight. In my area, we have a lot of trainees, and they are moved around a lot. I rarely recognize the agents I see; "Newbies" to the area, commonly.

    Nethercott's south Texas arrest, from what I read in the papers, sounded phony, and I'm willing to believe the accusers lied. But, I don't know.

    Compound? Yeah, almost every working ranch I've ever seen could be so-styled by a city-boy newspaper reporter. After all, you have separate fences around the house and yard, the main corral and barns, as well as other holding pens and sheds. (Bah! City folks! :))

    So, we need more time to get the full story--as usual...


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