1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.


Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by ClemBert, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. AbitNutz

    AbitNutz Well-Known Member

    If you won't take money for your time and effort...I'll make a donation to Children of Fallen Soldiers Relief Fund. I hope you don't mind me using you as an excuse.

    TAURUSBOB Active Member

    Count me in too please, I have five Ruger old armys. I will start saving for your
    recreational beverage and dinner money....we will all pay you for your time (you
    are the man). Thank you for making the ROA more fun to shoot.

    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  3. HUnter58

    HUnter58 Well-Known Member

    Count me in. I would gladly pay for materials and your time. :)
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  4. Jaymo

    Jaymo Well-Known Member

    Doak, your time and skills are valuable to us. Because of your creation, my ROA will be every bit as reliable with 777 as a modern, cartridge revolver.
    That makes all the difference in the world when carrying my ROA as a backup to my TC Renegade while hunting deer and hogs with BP. During BP season, I'm not allowed to carry any cartridge firearm, not even as a backup.
    So----I need the ROA to be as reliable as the Redhawk .44 mag. I'm betting my life that, should the .50 smokepole fail to stop a big hog, the ROA will keep porky from dining on my ample haunches.
    Yep, pigs will eat you. An old girlfirend of mine had an uncle (farmer) who had a heart attack while feeding his hogs. By the time his family found him, the pigs had eaten his lower half nearly to the bone.
    And these are domestic piggies, not feral hogs.

    Your contribution to the world of ROA shooters is huge. We are grateful for your creation.
    Bask in our appreciation, because you deserve it.
    I seem to have seen a primer capsule made for a TC sidelock rifle, but NEVER for a C&B revolver.
    You have made the unavailable, available. We are forever in your debt.

    When I get mine, I plan on giving them a good workout, prior to hunting with them.
    That way, I can make sure there aren't any defects in the material before I trust my hide to it.
    I absolutely trust your workmanship.
    I do not, and never have, trust any material not to have defects in it.
    After all, the raw material comes from steel mills that are run by people and subject to human error.

    BTW, you may have just created your own cottage industry/niche market. You seem to have the market cornered. That's a good position to be in.
    If you can, I would seek patent/copyright protection for your design.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  5. AbitNutz

    AbitNutz Well-Known Member

    Reliability, certainly in a hunting situation, is really terrific but I'm also looking at containing the "cap trash".
  6. Patocazador

    Patocazador Well-Known Member

    Just to show how good the ROA is, I'm posting an almost deer kill by mine today.
    I shot a small Florida 3 pt. with my Savage ML10 rifle using a Hornady 250 gr. HP/XTP in a sabot. The bullet blew up on his shoulder at 50 yards and he limped over and stopped 40 yards behind me not looking sick at all. I unholstered my ROA and shot him in the lungs with a handcast 255 gr. bullet. He ran 50 yards and dropped dead.

    The 'autopsy' showed that the lung hit from the ROA is what killed him. The XTP was in pieces in his shoulder.



    Just think what the small pistol primers would do to improve the performance ...WOW!
  7. Oldnamvet

    Oldnamvet Well-Known Member

    I'd be another one who will pay, trade, or donate for a set. those are just too neat to believe and your craftsmanship is extraordinary.
  8. Jaymo

    Jaymo Well-Known Member

    I had forgotten about containing cap fragments. Of course, that will help improve reliability.

    Bob, I'm not looking at it as a way to improve the performance of my ROA. It's a fantastic revolver.
    I just want to eliminate possibility of a fizzle, when hunting. Especially hunting hogs.
    They're a lot more dangerous than deer. They're not like porky pig.
    Larry Weishun calls them "poor man's grizzly bear".
  9. Patocazador

    Patocazador Well-Known Member


    Of course reliability of the gun is number one. Yesterday the caps fired, the 3FG ignited and all was fine with the world. However, I have had many instances when things didn't work perfectly. The setup that Doak has should change that.
  10. Jaymo

    Jaymo Well-Known Member

    Especially with the subs.
    Is that the .44 XTP wound, visible in the first pic? That looks like a nasty, but superficial wound.
    I'm thinking about using the 270 grain .44 soft point with a sabot, in my inline. It's the same bullet I use in my .444 Marlin.
  11. Patocazador

    Patocazador Well-Known Member

    It was screaming but also was very close ... about 45 yards. The lung shot was with the 255 gr .452 cast soft lead bullet from a Lee mold in the ROA. The entrance and exit wounds were the same size. The rifle shot didn't penetrate and fragmented on the shoulder blade. Both lungs were damaged by the cast bullet.

    Do you have any suggestions for a .452 bullet in a sabot that will penetrate and expand when shot out of the .50 cal? If so, I can load that same bullet in the ROA and probably get better results.

    I'm thinking about using a Nosler Partition .44 cal pistol bullet in a sabot for the rifle. What do you think?
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  12. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    Pato: A 44 mag bullet ought to do quite well. And I'd guess a 454/460 bullet ought to as well.

    I'm not so sure you can get a bullet that expands well at low velocities to also work well at much higher velocities. But REAL's seem to work OK in revolvers too. Maybe getting away from a jacketed bullet designed to expand, which is at a specific velocity, is the key.

    Others who are knowledgeable on using lead projectiles would need to chime in. I'm interested too as I've thought it would be nice to use my ROA bullets in a sabot from a side lock. What say you?
  13. J-Bar

    J-Bar Well-Known Member

    The dang bullet is already nearly half an inch in diameter, how much more expansion is needed? This is about the same diameter of the solids used on dangerous African game animals, and those are not designed to expand. If a half inch projectile plowing deep into an elephant will bring it down, how much more do you need for a whitetail?
  14. azyogi

    azyogi Well-Known Member

    I too would like to volunteer as a test bed for the primers.
  15. Patocazador

    Patocazador Well-Known Member

    The problem is I don't have the tracking skills of a Bushman. The half-inch hole will surely kill the animal but they don't leave much of a blood trail.
  16. J-Bar

    J-Bar Well-Known Member

    I believe you refuse to accept the evidence before you, in post #1065. By the way congratulations on taking a deer with a muzzleloader. I think any game taken by any muzzleloader is a trophy and I offer my sincere congratulations.

    The trophy you took fell to a heavy relatively non-expanding chunk of lead, not to the high tech jacketed expanding bullet. There is nothing that would make the deer deader. A deeply penetrating large diameter lead ball in the right place will not leave you much of a tracking chore. That expanding bullet would have, if you did not have your ROA as backup. What happened to you is not a fluke.

    And I don't think using pistol primers to ignite the powder charge would make any noticeable difference. A chrono might tell you that you added a few feet per second, but terminal performance on the game would be the same. It went all the way through with a cap for crying out loud.
  17. Jaymo

    Jaymo Well-Known Member

    I think a wide, flat nosed boolit would be your best bet. It'll punch a nearly full caliber hole through the deer, much like a hole punch does with paper.
    Especially if it's hard cast. Then, you have a hole in the deer that will bleed profusely and won't close up.
    Good enough for big, dangerous game, good enough for medium game.
    Pistols don't generate the velocity needed to deliver the level of hydrostatic shock that a rifle round generates. So, we load them to punch a clean, free bleeding hole that gives us a good blood trail do follow, and a game animal that dies quickly.
  18. jgray

    jgray Member

    Primer capsules

    Hi Doak,

    Very interesting concept! Sent you a PM.
    Appreciate your efforts.


  19. Onty

    Onty Well-Known Member

    Marvellous work Doak!

    I was thinking for a long time about different concept using boxer primers; back plate with firing pins (as for conversion cylinder for standard cartridge), with cylinder bored to accept boxer primer:


    With this setup, I will have just two parts to handle; cylinder and back plate with firing pins. Also, cylinder could be made to use 209 shotgun primers. In addition, here is adaptor that will allow using small pistol primers in cylinder bored for 209 primers:


    VariFlame Primer Adapter
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  20. AbitNutz

    AbitNutz Well-Known Member

    Man I would like one with 209 primers! That brings new powders into play, like Blackhorn.

    I have a Kirst conversion. If that backplate could be leveraged to fire 209 primers, that would be awesome.

Share This Page