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Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by ClemBert, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. Patocazador

    Patocazador Well-Known Member


    Since you have shot larger loads with your modified cylinders, can you share the components of some of your most accurate loads at 35-50 yds.? I tried stuffing 40 grs. of 4FG (by volume) in my stock cylinder but the accuracy was bad. It also took about all the force I could muster to seat the 210 conical flush with the cylinder face.
    I wish to use a powerful, accurate load for hunting with a 255 gr. bullet.

  2. AbitNutz

    AbitNutz Well-Known Member

    He mentioned me by name and posted right after me when I said I used 40 grains...that's the way I took it.
  3. Doak

    Doak Well-Known Member

    Any o' you's guys know the ol' trick of stretchin' a white bed sheet on the ground, out in front of the muzzle of whatever you're shootin'? Keep increasin' the powder charge 'til unburned granules of BP start showin' up on the sheet. At that point, the charge is already too large, and more powder is pointless.

    Might work w/some o' the BP substitutes? Don't know, never tried 'em. W/them, might hafta watch fer flames & use a chronograph. :-D

    Nice group on that target AbitNutz! And that's w/a short sight radius! Well done Laddie!
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013

    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member

    Stuffing the Old Army with 50-60 grains..............

    Sorry Abitnutz, but that was not directed to you or anyone in this club. It was aimed at the so called barnhouse "experts" on the other forum. You must have read it wrong. Again, my sincere apologies if you had misread my point in that thread. In my book, you and quite a good number of members here are what constitute TRUE and honest expertise in the field of Ruger Old Army ownership and use. Those other folks in the other forums should move on to this forum and listen to what is and what is not true in regards to the Old Army. Like I said Abitnutz, you are one of the pillars of this great forum of ours. With all due respect,...............Sumikito

    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member

    Thanks Clembert.........you are a great proofreader. (tip of the hat)

    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member

    MyKeal, can't risk the dog falling into the big hole INSIDE the old outhouse! I don't call him Boomboom for nothin'. Besides, like I said, he does like to keep an eye on me when I am up to no good and stuff like that. He's a good ole' hound dog. Don't want to loose him that way! Thanks for the suggestion. Regards.
  7. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Well-Known Member

    Great trick! Thanks.
  8. AbitNutz

    AbitNutz Well-Known Member

    SUMIKITO Sorry...clearly I have been having too much black powder in my coffee. It seems to happen more during exploitation season, er...I mean, tax season.
  9. AbitNutz

    AbitNutz Well-Known Member


    For ultimate power in an ROA I'm afraid you have to leave real black behind. Triple 7 is what's called for. If you have Clements deepen the ROA cylinder or go with the latest Classicbalistx cylinder, you can just get 40gr of it behind a BigLube DD-ROA FLAT Big Lube 210 grain. The reason I specifically mention this bullet is because of the flat nose. It doesn't have the round point of the Lee 456 so it's shorter. I had Hollow Point Mold Service make 3 of the 6 chambers HP's. It's no shorter but they are a bit lighter and being pure lead, they do seem to expand. I size and lube all the bullets in a Star or RCBS tool and use a soft, made for black powder stick lube, like Dick Dastardly or Gold.

    There's also a few tricks working with Triple 7. It doesn't like to be put under a great deal of pressure when loaded. Firm is OK...force is not. That's why I use a loading stand. I can get even pressure on every chamber.

    Also, Triple 7 likes lots of fire to go off. The slixshot nipples work well. I have also used Treso with good results. The cap however is a different matter. RWS 1075+ caps have significantly more kaboom than Remington. You don't need to measure it. Drop the hammer on an empty chamber with an RWS and then most anything else and you can hear a very big difference.

    If I use 40 grains of Triple 7, BigLube DD-ROA 210 bullets and RWS caps I get the most power with decent accuracy. I usually get good reliability by firing off a cap on an empty chamber before I start shooting for real. That seems to get rid of any debris or Ballistol that may be clogging the vents. I do not use any kind of wad between the bullet and the powder nor do I put grease over the chamber mouths. Some may wish to but I have found it not to be required with these bullets. They fit tightly and they have a large grease groove. The RWS caps fit all the caps VERY well and I have never had a flash over...and believe me, this load develops some flash! You're definitely aware it has gone off. I can also report that I have been able to shoot 6 or more cylinders full of this recipe without having to clean the weapon. It doesn't seem to lead nor does it seem to "grit" things up too much.

    The sad part is I have a Ransom Rest and a Chronograph but have never used either with my ROA. I think the next outing I may drag them along. I'm curious to see the ultimate velocity out of my 5-1/2" as well as the shot to shot consistency.

    Having said all that, I can tell you that while this is the most powerful load that I can get in my ROA it's not the most accurate. It is more than acceptable but when I want to shoot tight groups I drop the charge back to 35 grains or so. The BigLube EPP-UG 45-155 grain bullets also perform pretty well. I also had half that mold hollow pointed but I've never bothered to see how much powder I could put behind it. It is a very short, light bullet. I expect the velocity would be silly high but it would also likely smear the bore with lead and have pepperbox like accuracy.

    Sorry for the length but I do enjoy the subject.
  10. Patocazador

    Patocazador Well-Known Member

    AbitNutz: Thanks for the reply. I have a ClassicBallistx cylinder due to arrive at the end of the week. I can try the increased capacity and see what results I get.
    I killed a small buck earlier this year with a cast (Lee) 255 gr. flat-point and the deer only went ~ 50 yards after the lung shot. Therefore, I am partial to this bullet. I am trying to work up an accurate load of Blackhorn 209 using Doak's capsules with Rem. 7 1/2 small rifle primers. This powder is similar to 777 but is non-hygroscopic and non-corrosive. 777 is messy when I use it and leaves a crud ring. However, all of the granules of the BH 209 don't burn even when using 20 gr. by wt. Using larger amounts may not be more efficient and just a waste of powder but I'll try it.
    I have excellent accuracy with the 255 bullet with 30 gr. of 3FG but don't like the corrosive properties of BP either.
    As far as the chronograph goes, I get readings all over the place when used with black powder loads. I assume it's due to wads or smoke or by having the screens too close to the muzzle. I've had readings as low as 330 f/s and as high as 1160 f/s with the same load. I don't trust any readings when there is that much variation.
  11. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    SUMIKITO: I am the second owner of this ROA that I have. It belonged to my father's now passed friend. I believe it to be unaltered, but I can't say that I know that.

    "We all know here on the ROA club that even with a classicballistx or bored out cylinder by David Clements you simply can not get that much powder into those cylinders. ( 50-60 grains claimed as mentioned in past thread #1188). And after that , top it with a round ball or slug!"

    But if I can get a RB on top of 45 grains of 3F Triple 7 why wouldn't a deeper chamber hold 50? ClassicBallistx cylinders seem to hold 5-10 more grains IIRC. That would be 50-55 grns.

    I don't use that max load, but I was curious as to how much it held. I usually load 30-35 grns with a RB, and I have backed down from 35 to 30 grains for the 240 grn bullets I'm using to see if I could improve my groups as I want to one day try this as a primary hunting weapon. I need more practice... :eek:
  12. mykeal

    mykeal Well-Known Member

    Lots of folks quoting loads here that vary by 5 or 10 grains. I assume they're all referring to grains by volume, as is standard c&b revolver practice.

    If that's the case, we all need to consider that the volume measures we get are notoriously inaccurate devices. I have 4 different ones, and they vary by as much as 15%. If that's typical, then one guy's 45 grains is another guy's 50+ grains.

    You ask the question,
    The answer is it might, using the same powder measure, but I am quite confident in saying that Sumikito's powder measure probably doesn't read the same as yours, so he would not see your 50 grains as a 'real' 50 grains by volume.

    Who's right? Get out your powder scale (calibrated, of course) and don't forget to convert for the lower density of 777.

    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member

    Accurate vs full max powder charges in the ROA.........

    AbitNutz, you are right on the money when your charges are lowered with Triple7 & pure black FFFg. I have gotten very good to excellent accuracy out of my Old Armys with lowered charges, like 25-35 grains. The Old Army performs into the extremes of excellence when charges are brought down to this levels. Would you have a Ransom rest by any chance, AbitNutz, and maybe you could confirm all these to the good folks here and to up and coming members to be, about the endearing qualities that this geat line of pistols has to offer. The Ransom Machine Rest would totally eliminate ANY shooter error of any kind, even the the smallest shake or flinch would be eliminated, therefore making these great revolvers speak for themselves! Amen on that. We have always heard most everyone who owns the Old Army exclaim how their Old Armys are the most accurate pistol they have EVER owned, even if they have a whole safe full of other cartridge pistols at their disposal. A lot of these shooters are old foghorns who have been shooting and hunting all their lives, and to hear them exclaim about how their Old Armys can run circles and cloverleaves on the 10 ring is maybe something we have to take to heart. Some folks here have a multitude of Old Armys and maybe could conduct an "Just How Accurate is The Ruger Old Army Test" in a controlled manner, with assorted Old Army models and loads. Posting it all here would really be great! I'll bet that if done well, we could all be very pleased with the results and get more attached to our great pistols. All I have to contribute would be a bucket full of poker chips to be used as targets for this accuracy test! Bill Ruger, sir, you have continued to amaze us! Again, all the very best to all.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  14. Psycho

    Psycho Active Member

    Sign me up

    Here are my two Old Armies for entry into the club.
    The first was bought through an obscure add on the internet and then by chance this past weekend, I stumbled upon the faux ivory grip model at a gunshow. Never saw one at a show before and there was no way I was gonna leave it behind.

    Now to find some more to keep them company....


    Attached Files:


    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member

    Very nice pair there Psycho. Now to get some good FFFg black and Triple 7 with .457 balls and caps to get started booming at your range! ......Nice!
  16. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Member

    I purchased a ROA in a lot of guns from a gentleman I knew from the range. While I have two other BP pistols, I only shot one of them once before quite a while ago. What I'm saying is, I'm a BP novice! My initial question is... I've got a bunch of Hornady .454 balls. I've read the ROA likes .457 but can I safely use the smaller bullets? TIA.

  17. Vermonter

    Vermonter Well-Known Member

    To see if a .454 will work, just load one, and when you press it in see if it shaves a ring of lead. If it shaves a ring it has a good seal and you can load more. If it doesn't, then just fire that one chamber then head to the store and get some .457s :D

    For high power loads, I've been having great luck with Kaido's 255gr conicals. They are easy to load straight and shave a nice ring. I tried some DD-ROA but they were hard to load straight, didn't shave a good ring, and often crept forward, jamming the cylinder. Perhaps it was just a bad batch.

    I always shoot Triple 7 and have had no problem getting it going with Remington caps. The few failure-to-fires that I've had were from lack of cleaning before storage leading to corrosion or from gunk on the nipples making the caps need a second strike to light them off.
  18. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    I've used Kaido's 240 grain version of that bullet, and I like it. But at $40/100 + shipping they are a little spendy. I've found a fellow who casts on another forum who will resize a 230 grain RNFP bullet for a 45-70 to give it a smaller base much like Kaido's bullet for (resized and lubed) $11/100 + shipping.

    I'll be giving those bullets a shot after a while.

    I've also been told by several guys that they load lead 45 Colt bullets with success. I don't understand how they keep them straight though. I'd like to give them a try, but I'd be a bit mad if I found they didn't work and I still had a box of 94, 194 or 244, etc.
  19. FreddyKruger

    FreddyKruger Well-Known Member

    I'm looking for some target sights for my ROA. Any recommendations? The Bowen looks like the option for a rear, but which one suits the Old Army made in '86? and where can i get a target front blade from? without going custom...

    i want it to shoot POA at 25m (27yards) and 4 inches high at the same distance.

    SUMIKITO Well-Known Member

    JerseyJoe's .454 lead balls...........

    To Jersey Joe, if you do not get a nice lead O ring pop from your cylinder when loading your .454 balls, you will NOT get a good seal on your loaded cylinder. It just, just maybe, work out IF you put a good round wet felt wad after loading powder and then plunging in your ball, AND putting a lot of Crisco grease , butter, margarine, or cake icing on top of the ball, or even some KY if you got some etc. All this is to prevent that ever lurking possibility of a cylinder 'chainfire'. Something very unerving to experience when multiple cylinders go off at THE SAME TIME! Ahem! Gulp! Not something to look foward to, ever! The .457 ball made by makers Speer or Hornady always shave a nice O ring of lead everytime you load them. Always. Then you might just like in my case do away with all the messy greases and wads altogether without a hitch. If you insist on using a wad, its ok too. I just do not find it really neccesarry if you realy have a good seal and examination of your shaven lead O rings tell you so. You will know upon close examination. Done it this way with all my Old Armys and thousands of balls. Always works. Nice and simple. With the .457 ball all is good, all the time. All the very best to you.

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