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The Statue of Liberty is kaput

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by lykoris, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. lykoris

    lykoris Well-Known Member

    The line from Saving Private Ryan seemed apt for this thread. I have read a lot over the past few months on THR and given my European perspective I just wanted to add something to the debate.

    You have to do everything possible to prevent the further infringement on the iconic American right that is the right to keep and bear arms.

    Firearms legislation is all about one word and that word is Control with a capital C. It removes the individual's natural right to be able to defend themselves and their families. The goal to make you completely and utterly 100% reliant upon the government. There is no question that RKBA is a true litmus test of trust between those who govern and those who elect them to office.

    We are restricted here in numerous ways but broadly it is done by each generation as the technocrats in the EU think long term. Each successive generation is conditioned to accept more restrictions/more costs/more rules of law until you go from a completely free society to complete reliance upon government for anything related to firearms. They think long term.

    As a European I have zero rights to use a firearm for defense. I can only use it for hunting or sporting purposes, it was not always like this within this country. The Czech Republic has carry laws but I have no doubt over the decade(s) to come they will be completely eradicated to align with broader EU standards. There is no space for the natural right of self-defense of the individual within the EU collective. Every state must be molded to comply with the desires of non-elected technocrats in Brussels. They think long term....it is all for the collective good.

    I cannot even acquire an air rifle/pistol without government approval - everything is licensed/registered/approved. It did not begin that way but once they started registration it was only a question of time. Eventually registration and consequently licensing/approval became mandatory for everything. They think long term.

    Financial costs.
    I know people who have stopped shooting because the cost of compliance was simply too high both financially and also from all the paperwork and approvals one requires just to target shoot as a pastime.

    Before I pay a single cent on acquiring a new firearm here I am looking at USD 116,11....

    EUR 20
    My European license must be updated.

    EUR 50
    This is the going rate for updating my national license and having firearms added to it.

    EUR 18
    I have to go to a photographer and get photos taken "professionally"...i.e. photos placed within the stationary of the photographer. My wife has all the gear to take the same photos, 5k worth of photography equipment which can get the same result....but they are not accepted.

    I then have mandatory club membership on an annual basis along with renewing both licenses, both are up for renewal next year. The rising cost of compliance prohibits new shooters to join the sport and inevitably each generation has less and less knowledge/familiarity with firearms. Overall, less people have firearms. They think long term.

    Also, there is no legal definition set as to the number of firearms one can own in this country but it is restricted by the head of the firearms department here to a given number. Try and imagine having the number of firearms you own restricted by the whims of a government official. Nobody can afford to take the government to court to point this out, my wife is a lawyer and she laughed at the idea.

    In most European countries they banned certain types of firearms or grandfathered them. It is the same thing with a timestamp on the latter. Each successive generation has less until they wake up one day looking like the U.K. It took them less than 100 years to do it. They think long term.

    The RKBA underpins liberty and so you all need to do everything possible to try and preserve your right, the RKBA for your childrens' children. You need to start thinking long term too.
  2. DocCasualty

    DocCasualty Well-Known Member

    I personally would like to thank you for your candid thoughts on RKBA. I also am sorry what has happened to you and many others around the world in regards to your ability to possess firearms and shoot. Your post give me pause to reflect that my thoughts about our 2nd Amendment rights in the US are crystal clear and we need to maintain them as our Constitutional right and not surrender them to some expensive subjective privilege.
  3. Blackstone

    Blackstone Well-Known Member

    Whatever happened to my great country, where its Olympic shooters have to go abroad to train. Every time I go to switzerland to shoot, I can't help but feel I'm an exile, seeking asylum in another country.
  4. DSling

    DSling Well-Known Member

    I was born in the 80's and if you looked at me you wouldn't think I love guns as much as I do. My son is already performing the gun safety rules at 2 (keep your finger strait and off the trigger until you are ready to fire) because he watches me. My anger boils to think of the changes that have happened between my childhood and now. I have no problem with freedom of speech but they are taking away my rights too. Maybe I want my children to say the pledge of allegiance. Maybe I want them to know the star spangled banner. Maybe I want them to believe that if everybody has a ccw or oc there will be less gun violence. There is a huge fear of the unknown that looms on the horizon. It is up to us to figure out where we will end up.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
  5. No4Mk1*

    No4Mk1* Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the post. You are correct that ultimately this is an issue of government control vs individual freedom. New York Democrats have done a great job demonstrating this. Guns/ magazines / large sodas...
  6. Curator

    Curator Well-Known Member

    "Those who think they can trade a little liberty for more security end up with neither": Ben Franklin. Gun control in this Country has mostly been a one-way street. The repeal of the Clinton AWB was an anomaly. You can bet the new one will not have a "sunset" provision. Perhaps the average American will wake up with all the talk about new restrictions, taxes, and regulations and begin to elect representatives who uphold the Constitution instead of Party directives.
  7. vito

    vito Well-Known Member

    I left NY in the mid '60's for military duty and never returned (to live), and in all these years I still do not understand the mentality of my relatives and apparently most of the people who live in and around NYC regarding guns. They are not stupid and they understand that the police cannot respond quickly enough to protect them from harm. But they see guns as so evil, so dangerous, that they are willing to cede to the criminals the ability to be alone in having a firearm. I have a nephew who talks about keeping a baseball bat at the ready in case of a break-in to his home. When I ask him how confident he is that armed with the bat he will be successful in keeping his wife and two children safe against a possibly armed burglar he admits that he is less than fully confident. But he will not buy a firearm. In recent years however, I am getting more confident that we will NOT go the way of Europe and Australia in restricting guns. If nothing else, the election and re-election of Obama has spurred many to buy a gun for the first time as well as convincing some hunters and others who felt little interest in 2A issues that they had better get interested or their gun ownership might be threatened. The proliferation of concealed carry (but not yet in the corruption that I live in called Illinois) means that it is less and less likely that draconian gun control can become the law of the land.
  8. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Well-Known Member

    Great post~thanks for the perspective and clarity on the issue.
  9. jamesbeat

    jamesbeat Well-Known Member

    Where do you live?
    I'm English, but I moved to the States just over three years ago.
    Even though I am in NY, it's a night and day difference, though they seem to be trying to change that.
    If only those politicians would try living in the UK for a year or two, they might not be so inclined to take away our rights.

    I hear you on the expense thing.
    I don't have a pistol license simply because I can't afford to get one right now.
    I also don't know enough people who aren't family members to give me the required references.
    It's a de facto ban if ever there was one. If I lived in almost any other state, I would be able to walk into a store and buy a handgun, but it's impossible for me to get one at the moment.
    At least I can still buy long guns without any licensing requirements (except semiautos), so at least for now it's much better than Britain.
  10. RiverPerson

    RiverPerson Well-Known Member

    lykoris, I like how you emphasized that people opposed to guns are thinking long term. It is important for those of us in the U.S. to just not sigh in relief if we beat the current round of anti-gun hysteria. We must remain vigilant year after year.

    We have to think long term. Not just two years or four years from now, but 20, 30, 40, and 50 years down the road. Even longer.

    We have instill a passion for firearms in people that normally would not be exposed to them and help them gain an understanding of the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment and why privately held firearms are so important.

    If not, the number of people championing gun rights will gradually get smaller and smaller over the coming decades, and eventually there will be little challenge to strict gun regulation and outright bans.

    I've said it in another post here, but if people 100 years from now never have the opportunity to keep and bear arms, they will not even realize what was lost.
  11. jj1962hemi

    jj1962hemi Well-Known Member

    A good thing about the current political climate is the introduction of new people to gun ownership. I think we should all introduce as many people as possible, get CC permits if your states allow it, etc. I like the fact that even flaming gun banners are beginning to see that it will be impossible to "take them all" from U.S. citizens. That said, the fight goes on. The statistics are on our side. The U.S. has never had as many guns, guns with as much potency, or as many people claiming (via permits, whether they carry or not) to carry guns.....yet crime keeps dropping.

    The remaining arguement, a scary one to me because some people buy it (like the "Patriot" Act), is that "If it saves one life, it's worth it." We have to dig in and combat that thinking.
  12. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    I've been introducing new shooters to firearms as often as possible. Even going so far to get my NRA instructor's licensing this year so I can teach in an "official" capacity.

    It's important we are all as proactive as possible about passing on firearms tradition.

    Of the children in my son's high school, he's (was) the only one with any firearms training or experience. I've been changing that, slowly and carefully, by taking his friends shooting with us (with parent permission, obviously).

    Just last weekend I took time to train a new person with zero firearms experience - a lady in her mid 30's (friend's sister). We spent about 5 hours going over safety and handgun operation, then hit the range. By the end of the day she was holding 3" groups at 15 yards, and asking "when are we doing this again!!!!"
  13. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Well-Known Member

    as a life long shooter and NRA instructor ( handgun, rifle, BP, re-loading) i have been telling any who hear me that the time is now for those who desire freedom to take our country back--via the political process.
    the longer we wait to see whats next...the harder it will be to work the system in a peaceable manner.

    how is it that the media can discriminate our ads?
  14. Dean1818

    Dean1818 Well-Known Member

    You have the right approach!

    Every shooter needs to get 3 non shooters to the range this year......
  15. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Well-Known Member

    Dean, that is a great goal for all of us. We all do what we can, but let's put a real number to it. All of us; pledge to take 3 newbies out shooting this year. I'm up to 1 so far in 2013.
  16. JFrame

    JFrame Well-Known Member

    To the OP: I would like to echo the sentiments of the others and thank you for posting that profound and beautifully articulated message. [​IMG]

  17. lykoris

    lykoris Well-Known Member

    I don't know how to quote somebody so will try answer this way.


    I live in Luxembourg which believe it or not has some of the most favourable firearms legislation within the EU.

    To illustrate a point about conditioning people my brother and I both were introduced to firearms by our grandfather on his farm in Ireland. We would target shoot with him during our summer holidays away from school. My brother after college went to live and work in London (he has been there 20 years) and I came here.

    When he came over to visit he could not believe the firearms I had and was trully shocked first and foremost (and then excited to try them out). I brought him to the range and at the end of the day he said "I can see the appeal and it was a fun way to spend an afternoon". He also said he does not believe anybody should own what I own and only the police/government should have firearms.

    This coming from a guy that had his apartment ransacked by burglars and all his possessions taken in London and has since worried about what he would have done had his wife/son been home. :confused:

    We don't own the press and they push an agenda here in Europe. Unfortunately they condition people to think in a completely irrational manner when it comes to firearms and their usefulness in protecting one's family from home invasion.
  18. TNBilly

    TNBilly Well-Known Member


    I don't know which was first Australia or in EU but the methods used and outcome seems to be the same. By the time a generation passes they will have been completely brainwashed into the government positions!
  19. GrOuNd_ZeRo

    GrOuNd_ZeRo Well-Known Member

    I immigrated from gun grabbing Europe, the Netherlands to be exact.

    Not much on bans on types of firearms (except full auto) but they have draconian storage and transportation laws and you need to be a member of a shooting club for 2 years before you are considdered for the priviledge of owning a firearm that requires to be locked up in a wall mounted safe at all times seperate from the ammunition and it's highly impractical to use it in self defense and even then they would have to PROOF you were in danger of life and limb.

    OH and not to forget that I had to get police premission to buy an air rifle!

    Thankfully I met my wife in the US and I was quickly introduced into the "gun culture", have been a gun owner since 2006 and have a respectable collection now.

    And I have so much love for my newly adopted country that I enlisted in the Army 6 years ago and am still serving with pride.

    God bless America, Long Live the Republic!
  20. JFrame

    JFrame Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your service -- and a belated welcome! [​IMG]


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