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Third, final, pre production water cooled Ruger 10/22 prototype.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Bill Akins, Mar 1, 2009.

  1. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins Well-Known Member


    The 3rd improved, pre production water cooled Ruger 10/22 prototype Browning style, machine gun dress up kit is coming along nicely and is almost finished.
    This 3rd prototype of mine, incorporates all the things I learned in making the first two prototypes. It also has numerous improvements built into it.

    As with the first two prototypes, it will be crank fired like a gatling gun using an accessory crank fire trigger attachment.

    The same standardized aluminum stock, can be quick changed between being a Browning style air cooled 1919, to a 1917 TRULY water cooled model in just a minute. It also has a built in bolt recoil buffer and has a one inch longer receiver and water jacket that cools one inch more of the barrel than my previous water cooled prototype did. It also has a redesigned top cover as well as redesigned back and front fake receiver covers. It is the best of the three prototypes and incorporates all the good features of the first two prototypes, with simplification and improvements over them as well.

    As with the first two prototypes, there is no modification to the Ruger 10/22 receiver in any way.

    Below are some pictures taken yesterday of the 3rd prototype as it is progressing to an almost finished point. Hopefully it will be completely finished by next week or the week after that. Then it will be polished out and anodized.

    Below, my friend Pete, holding it.



    These are not yet for sale. There will be four of these built soon to start with. Cost has not yet been determined. Let me know if you want one and I will put you on a list to contact when they are done and we have pricing. You can contact me at Akins_Bill@yahoo.com

    THE HEAVY BULL BARREL WILL COME WITH THE KIT. You will have to have your own Ruger 10/22 receiver and trigger group. We will have a mount that comes with the kit that allows you to attach the kit to a full size M2 tripod, the Browning 1917 or 1928 tripod and also an adapter block as an optional accessory to allow you to attach the kit to a standard camera tripod since not everyone has a machine gun tripod and the camera tripod works great. I use one on my air cooled prototype. You can find the "BMF activator" crank fire trigger attachment at Cabella's or other dealers online for an average of about $25.00
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  2. browningguy

    browningguy Well-Known Member

    That is pretty cool.
  3. Brazos

    Brazos Well-Known Member

    I hate to bring this question up because I can tell you worked hard and it does have some "Cool" factor but "Why?" I am assuming this is not full auto so why the need for a water cooled barrel? In the end is it not just a big heavy .22lr semi auto? I really feel bad bringing up the question because I can tell you worked hard. Just trying to understand what advantages out weigh the disadvantages.

  4. Funderb

    Funderb Well-Known Member

    you can get a crank for it, right?
  5. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    that is cool

    brazos, i think it will have near-full-auto rates of fire due to the bold line in the OP that says it's crank fired like a gatlin gun.

    btw, this isn't really a 'for sale' forum so it would probably be best if business is taken to the sale forums...
  6. Brazos

    Brazos Well-Known Member

    I guess. It is cool and people like Bill Akins make the shooting world interesting. He is the type of guy I would like to have in hunting camp. Bill obviously went thru a bunch if work for this to get it to where it is at and I wonder if it was worth it and why. Maybe he has some technical reasons for doing this or maybe he just thought it would be cool to build (not a thing wrong with that). My guess would be is that it is a cool project. It would be fun to show up at hunting camp with a water cooled 10/22 w/ a sack full of tin cans.

  7. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins Well-Known Member

    Yes you can get a crank for it. I use the BMF activator. You can get one from Cabella's and other online dealers for about $25.00

    These are not yet for sale. But soon will be. We will start out with four. You can contact me at my e mail link in the post if you want to be on a contact list to be notified when they are available, but for now, they are not available for sale yet.

    You can see a video of my earlier water cooled Ruger 10/22 firing at this link at U tube. As you can see, it fires very rapidly with the crank Gatling gun style. The third and final prototype will fire the same way. The water jacket allows me to fire multiple magazines without having to worry about overheating, since I sometimes fire 3 or 4 50 rd mags in a row... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFkGUC7Bo5U&feature=channel_page

    And another U tube slideshow of the earlier water cooled and air cooled prototypes of which this latest 3rd prototype is vastly improved over.....

    Below are pics of the first two prototypes that this third prototype is vastly improved over....

    First water cooled prototype

    First air cooled prototype

    I have had a few people ask me the same question of "Why?" That's a fair question. Allow me to explain.....

    I've been to many range machine gun shoots. I've fired those full size rifle calibers machine guns and also watched the owners fiddling with them. Many times they fiddle adjusting them more than they shoot them. Headspace problems, jams, etc. These are frequent problems I have seen on full size tripod and bipod mounted kit built full autos, as well as non kit full autos, as well as kit built and non kit built semi auto versions.

    The full auto guns cost tens of thousands of dollars. Even the semi autos cost several thousand dollars. You can't just get a full auto kit minus the right sideplate that goes for about $1000.00 and put a right sideplate semi sideplate on it. BATFE requires the internals to be semi auto only as well. So the full auto kits won't work for making a semi. So you are still stuck with the above tens of thousands, or at least several thousand that I mentioned.
    Even the only belt fed full auto tripod mounted, mini Browning look-a-like on the market which is the Tippman made by Lakeside Machine works costs many thousands of dollars.

    But even for those who have that kind of money to spend and do get their full size machine guns tweaked perfectly. They still have to feed them.

    So first lets discuss the financial end of my reasoning for "Why?" do this with a .22LR cartridge.

    With .308 up to what? Around 60 cents a round and rising with the Obama scare and 30-06 even more expensive, and not much surplus ammo around, it gets expensive to feed those full size 30-06 and .308 guns. I can buy a box of 550 rds of .22 for about $13.50
    That comes out on my calculator to 2.4 cents per .22LR round.
    Calculating at 60 cents a round, .308 comes out to $330.00 for 550 rounds.

    You can fire off 550 rds just firing 5 and 1/2 belts of 100 rds. Most full size machine gun shooters shoot more than that at each range session. But even if you only fired 5 and 1/2 belts of 100 rds, totaling 550 rds, you have just spent $330.00 compared to the same number of .22LR rounds I can fire for $13.50

    That's a savings of $316.50 shooting the same amount of rounds. Many of the full size machine gun owners that I know, don't shoot their guns but once or twice a year because of this exorbitant cost of ammo. Hence, less fun with them.

    And what do we shoot at? Old washing machines, old refrigerators, old lawnmowers, old fire extinguishers, old bowling pins and even paper targets right? All things I can perforate just fine with a .22LR. I can have just as much fun perforating those same targets with my cheap .22LR round without wasting all that cash on expensive ammo. We aren't using them for combat or trying to stop a vehicle. We are shooting the same things with the .22 that the owners of those full size guns are shooting at. Half the time I see them shooting at the machine gun shoots, they are just kicking up dirt. If I'm going to just kick up dirt, I'd rather do it at 2.4 cents a round rather than 60 cents a round.

    So you can readily understand the savings financially and the consequent tendency to shoot more often and hence have more fun more often.

    Now that we've established the sound financial reasoning for doing it with a .22LR round, let's explore my reasoning for "Why" do it with a Ruger 10-22 instead of some other .22 rifle.

    The Ruger 10-22 is the most plentiful and most often encountered .22 rifle in America. It also has the most amount of different companies and manufacturers making after market parts for it. You can get parts anywhere.
    There are a host of improved after market parts such as Volquartsen hammers, sears, springs, extended mag releases, titanium firing pins, bolt handles, high cap mags, heavy barrels, etc, etc, etc. So you aren't limited to just going back to one manufacturer to get any needed parts. You can pick up a 10-22 brand new for about $200.00 and I recently bought two in excellent condition from a pawn shop for $100.00 each. It is much cheaper to buy parts for a 10-22 than for a full size semi or full auto Browning or even the Lakeside Machine Tippman.

    People forget that belt fed weapons have to have their belts loaded. They don't magically load themselves. With one 50 rd mag change with a ruger 10-22 I can equal one 100 rd machine gun belt. Plus I can load that mag faster than someone can load a fresh belt into their full size belt fed gun.

    The only drawback is if someone links say 5 belts of 100 rds each together.
    That I cannot yet duplicate. But I am working on it. I have designed a belt feed that will feed through the mag well with no modification to the gun. It will work on a 10-22, an AR15 or any magazine fed firearm including pistols.
    When I get that perfected, I can have a belt feed for my 10-22 crank fire mini mg kits. Then there will be no limitations on ammo capacity whatsoever. That is when my water cooled version will really come in handy. Because at that point overheating will definitely be a problem for a non water cooled gun. Even now just magazine feeding, I have to let my air cooled model cool down a bit if I quickly fire several hundred rds through it. Because if I don't, it affects accuracy by expansion of the barrel which affects accuracy as well as the hot barrel starting to soften the lead which causes it to load up in the rifling grooves and have to be removed by a lewis lead remover or else a piece of brass screen on a cleaning rod.

    Believe me, as well as researching full size machine gun styles of what I wanted to emulate with my build ups, I also gave a lot of thought to the finances of the round fired and the cost and easy replacement of parts of the host gun doing it. There is simply no less expensive way to do this than what I have done. That's why I think it will sell well when I get into production.

    Some people have asked me...."Why not just put a bipod on a Ruger 10-22 and put a BMF crankfire trigger accessory on it, wouldn't that be the same thing?".

    My answer to them is no. And here's why. You get extreme accuracy using a tripod. It holds the gun rock solid and you don't really have to even touch anything but to turn the crank to fire it. (But of course sometimes I want to traverse while firing).You don't get that just using a bipod on a standard Ruger 10-22. You also do not have anywhere near the same feel of firing a full size machine gun firing a standard Ruger 10-22 like that verses firing my mini's on tripods. A lot regarding firearms is esthetics. Sure any gun will shoot, so why are some that are the same caliber preferred over others in the same caliber. Esthetic's. Not only would someone getting my mini kit have a legally rapid firing miniature representation of a air or water cooled Browning that really shoots rapidly, but you would also have an excellent model and conversation piece. And perhaps a collectors item as well depending on how many I eventually produce.

    I always wanted a tripod mounted water cooled Browning but couldn't afford one much less want to expensively feed it. Now I have the best of the look and feel of the real water and air cooled Brownings, without the costs of expensive ammo or expensive replacement parts. Not to mention no registration required for mine compared to its full size full auto big brothers.

    I hope to be able to market these for much less than $1000.00
    Perhaps even as low as 5 or 6 hundred depending on my production costs.
    Compare my proposed kit cost along with $100.00 for a used 10-22 against several thousand for a full size .308 semi or the tens of thousands for a full size full auto. Also compare the cost of replacement parts plus add in the difference in ammo cost as well as the cost of full auto registration.

    Have you checked out the cost of non firing model machine guns lately? You would be shocked. And they don't even fire. Take a look at some of these prices in the many thousands of dollars in these links....

    At below link, check out the unreal prices. 3 and 4 thousand and more for non firing replica MODELS!

    At below link, $2000.00 for the Lewis non firing replica model. $2,500 for the Spandau.

    At below link, $1,500.00 for a Ma Deuce 50 cal non firing model.

    I hope you can understand my reasoning now, for doing this with not only a .22 round, but also for using the Ruger 10-22 as the host firearm for my selection. I did a lot of research before I started fabricating anything. I wanted something like this that I myself wished was on the market at the price I would like to pay. Since it didn't exist, I built it and want to build it for others like me. :D
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  8. Funderb

    Funderb Well-Known Member

    I still think it is awesome!
  9. WNTFW

    WNTFW Well-Known Member

    While I'm not sure if that is my type of thing or not, I really admire the fact you and your partner did it.
  10. SimpleIsGood229

    SimpleIsGood229 Well-Known Member

    That's really cool! You might be on to something.
  11. usmc1371

    usmc1371 Well-Known Member

    I would love to show up to a sage rat shoot with one of those. I wouldn't even care if i hit one it would still be a blast. I agree on the cost of ammo I always wonderd how much money I was blowing when the marines turned me loose with thousands of rounds of 7.62 and said don't stop till you run out and don't forget to change the barrel with every belt. :)
  12. husker

    husker Well-Known Member

    thats awesome iv seen you on you tube with your guns. do you have prints for sale? i have a machine shop for the live steam hobby in my basement
  13. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

    The question I have is, why didn't you install a trigger extension so someone could work the trigger with their hands inside the rear grips? That way they could even operate it authentically.
  14. C-grunt

    C-grunt Well-Known Member

    What about hooking up an electric motor to the crank and having the controls as a working butterfly trigger??

    Or would that turn it into a machine gun?
  15. C-grunt

    C-grunt Well-Known Member

    BTW that is very cool and something I would be interested in.
  16. General Geoff

    General Geoff Well-Known Member

  17. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins Well-Known Member

    I'm interested in steam engines too Husker. I would love to have one as an auxiliary power source for my shop and home in case of power outage. As you no doubt know, a steam turbine is more efficient than a steam engine, but I haven't been able to find an affordable steam turbine for home use. Would love to know where to find an affordable steam engine in the alternative.

    I don't have prints for my dress up kits for sale.
  18. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins Well-Known Member

    Funny you should mention that. I've designed a thumb thimble crank that can attach to the rear plate of the fake receiver and will allow you to grasp both grips and crank the crankfire trigger accessory using just your thumbs. Wheels with struts (or gears with small chain) would go from the thumb crank downward to another set of wheels that have struts that turn the BMF activator spindle and crank fire the gun. It works on the same principle as train wheels, but without a flywheel. Still crankfired so it would be legal and not required to be registered, just now you would be able to grasp both grips and crank with one or the other, or both thumbs. That's something I plan to work on in the future, but for now, I just want to get this project going first and add accessories later.
  19. Bill Akins

    Bill Akins Well-Known Member

    Yes, that would turn it into a machine gun. That is to be avoided.
  20. husker

    husker Well-Known Member

    man thats a tough one. if your a tool-n- die man then you can fabricate just about any thing. people take the real blue prints of a locomotive they wana build and divide every thing by 8 inorder to get to 1-1/8th scale. if you could find the prints on a turbine from a power plant and divide by 8 i think you would be right were ya wana be for power. boilers can be had from several places one of the best is in texas or you can build it to. check out this web site and its links. discover live steam .com the electric button assit on your gun would make it the same as any fully auto i bet as far as uncle sam is concerned maybe not. it wouldnt be hard to do

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