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This foolishness has to stop

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Bruce H, May 16, 2003.

  1. Bruce H

    Bruce H Well-Known Member

    NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Police kicked down the wrong door at a New York apartment house on Friday and a woman with a heart condition died on the way to the hospital.

    A bungled tip about a drug dealer's cache led police to kick down the door and toss a stun grenade into the apartment of a woman with a heart condition; she died of a heart attack within an hour, police said.

    "This is a tragedy. This should not have happened. No doubt about that," said Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly.

    Police were led to the apartment of city employee Alberta Spruill, 57, by a registered, but apparently untested, informant, officials said. The dealer they sought lived in the same building but had been arrested by a different police unit four days earlier, they explained.

    Spruill had just dressed for work, where she certified eligibility for civil service candidates, when the raiding party executed its "No Knock" warrant at 6 a.m., broke down her door, tossed in the grenade and handcuffed the stunned woman to a chair.

    Police soon realized the mistake, took off the handcuffs and called an ambulance to take her to a hospital for observation.

    While on the way to Harlem Hospital she suffered a heart attack and was pronounced dead on arrival.

    Kelly said the "flash bang" grenades are usually used to dislodge barricaded suspects. He said that police have executed more than 1,900 warrants this year and four of those were at the wrong addresses.

    The lieutenant who ordered use of the grenade in the misguided raid was put on administrative leave, officials said.
  2. Preacherman

    Preacherman Well-Known Member

    I hope that any surviving family members sue the pants off the NYPD over this... not that it will bring her back, but it might teach their idiot overseers a lesson.

    God rest her soul. That's no way to die.

    :cuss: :fire: :mad:
  3. Desertdog

    Desertdog Well-Known Member

    **** up and get a paid vacation! Way to go.
    He should be required to keep the dog pound clean, not put on administrative leave.
  4. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    In a case like this, where fair restitution is impossible, I think the next of kin should acquire a bodyservant for life. :scrutiny:
  5. Sergeant Bob

    Sergeant Bob Well-Known Member

    They got a No Knock warrent on a tip? From a fine upstanding citizen no doubt. For a dealer who was already in freaking jail!!! :fire:

    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle would be proud. That's why he's the Commisioner.:rolleyes:

    Misguided? How about deadly . He'll probably turn up working for the BATF.

  6. dinosaur

    dinosaur Well-Known Member

    I am sooo glad I`m retired. :banghead: Kelly should exercise that option too. The second time around hasn`t enhanced his career.
  7. Greg L

    Greg L Well-Known Member

    I doubt it (the overseers part, the family should certainly sue), they don't have to pay it themselves. Even if the family gets a big settlement/judgement it will only come from their neighbors in the form of higher taxes. The LT who ordered the no knock on the basis of a tip won't be liable for anything personally and won't serve as a warning to others to make sure that their sh .. er stuff.. is together before smashing in doors. :fire:

  8. Marko Kloos

    Marko Kloos Moderator Emeritus

    I used to get incensed about these things; now I just watch the show with detached amusement. As long as people keep voting to support the irrational War On Some Drugs, they will get exactly what they voted for.
  9. Glock Glockler

    Glock Glockler Well-Known Member

    All the more reason to deep six this "War on Drugs". Not that doing so would eliminate mistakes like this, but there'd be far less incidence of them due to far less no knock situations.


    You do understand that the majority of the people have not made the connection between the WOD and events such as this, yes? It's sort of like people being plugged into the Matrix, they aren't even aware of it enslaving them.

    You also understand that as long as others vote for it, you will get what they deserve?

    Maybe we should wake them up?
  10. Marko Kloos

    Marko Kloos Moderator Emeritus

    Just try it on this board alone. The same people who moan about increasing restrictions of liberties are the ones who refuse to vote anything but Republican, because "Libertarians are the pro-drug party".

    Every infringement on our freedoms since the 1930s can be directly attributed to the War On Some Drugs, which started out as the War On Booze. If you support the current Prohibition, you support the abrogation of your own freedoms.

    But, we keep the charade up, chins high, because stopping the futile WoD would "send the wrong message", and cause mass drug consumption....just like the end of Prohibition caused binge drinking.

    GG, they've all heard the message, but they don't want to wake up. The self-deluding dream is more comforting than facing reality. The sad truth is that conservatives can be just as good as liberals when it comes to letting logic take the back seat to emotion.
  11. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

    Was there not just a thread where people were doubting the fact that people were wrongfully killed during SQUAT raids?:confused:

    Poor training is a part of this; however, as lend sez the motivation behind this kind of behavior is federal money. They need the raids to justify the flow of cash from the federal spout.

    Wasn't it Weber that said, when a bureaucracy loses sight of its goal, it redoubles its efforts???
  12. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Well-Known Member

    Since not a dime will come out of the officers' pockets, I highly doubt it will teach the idiots any lesson.
  13. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

    I've always faulted the upper echelons of administration in the various police authorities who authorize this sort of "dynamic entry". In almost every instance of "Oops! Wrong address!" of which I have read, there were two factors: First, over-reliance on a snitch; second, a lack of absolute certainty from other sources as to the activities within that location. An administrative policy of independent verification would certainly reduce this sort of tragedy.

    Ultimately, of course, it all comes back to the hypocrisy of our WoD.

  14. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

    Art, but if a police department implemented your suggestion that would reduce the number of "raids" that could be conducted. If you reduce the number of raids, you reduce the amount of drugs (as a matter of probability). If you reduce the amount of drugs, you reduce the amount of federal funding.

    In order to keep the money coming, the police must "push the envelope" with CIs. Numbers, numbers, numbers.

    The one suggestion I would make from my own time in law enforcement would be if we are to fight the War on (Some) Drugs then stop treating it as Vietnam with body counts and press conferences which leads to a continous, neverending circle as new dealers/suppliers pop up. Treat it economically, dry up the market, treat the addicts and destroy the welfare state mentality which creates greater number of addicts and attack the sources by stopping foreign aid to source countries and prosecuting the New York banks which launder the money.

    The target of the current WoD is the low end dealer/user. For example, in my state, something that I observed in drug prosecutions was that the "investigation" stopped at the "retailer" or "consumer." The reason being was that there was no incentive to pursue the entire chain from federal money and my state's criminal code.

    The police could do a controlled buy on a couple of rocks of crack and have a Class A felony (Indiana highest class felony short of Murder) arrest. However, if they spent time and effort and connected the dots of the entire organization, they would get Corrupt Business Organization a Class C felony as conspiracy would be stretched too far. The federal money was easier in the first instance as well.
  15. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

    I don't like drugs or what they do to people but I'd sooner call it quits on the WoD and legalize everything. We should be passing drugs out for free in the jails or prisons and let the junkies OD themselves.

    Better that than the abrogation of our rights.
  16. 444

    444 Well-Known Member

    I think you would see very few ODs.
    One of the main causes of OD is the lack of quality control in the product. People take the same amount of the drug that they normally would take, but the particular batch of the drug is more potent than they are used to.
    Normally you know right away when a new shipment of narcotics has entered the city with a stronger potency. You get OD after OD.
  17. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Well-Known Member

    When I was in the Navy and the ship was pulling into a port like Hong Kong, the ship's closed circuit television programming would be saturated with programs warning the sailors how potent the drugs were in Hong Kong. Essentially the intent was to scare the sailors into not using drugs, but all it did was caution them to be careful.

    The Air Boss grumbled the method was all wrong. The programming should have lied and stressed that the drugs were so weak in Hong Kong that one had to take five times the hit he was used to to get a buzz. He figured out that when the ship's reefers (cold storage) units had 20-30 corpses the correct message would be sent.

    The Air Boss did a tour in the Army before he became a Naval Aviator. He was in Korea shortly after the Korean War ended. The first sergeant got word one of the soldiers was processing heroin for sale. He informed the company commander. The company C.O., the first sergeant, and the Air Boss, then a young sergeant, went to where the drug dealer was doing his work and surprised him in the act of packaging his wares.

    The drug dealing soldier when confronted by the trio quickly swallowed his product. The company C.O. quietly told the Air Boss, "Sergeant, close and lock the door." The Air Boss complied. The three then waited and watched for the heroin to take effect. When the drug dealing soldier became unconscious, the Air Boss was instructed to, "Walk, repeat, walk to the dispensary and get an ambulance." All that was necessary was that the drug dealing soldier be alive when the ambulance showed up, nothing more.
  18. Erik

    Erik Well-Known Member

    Ah, so we should maintain the moral high-ground via willful, intentional inaction equating to felonious activity on par with the drug dealing it is intended to erradicate. Wonderful.
  19. The-Distinctive-Edge

    The-Distinctive-Edge Well-Known Member

    My gosh, that is a horrible! paul
  20. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    If the only "cure" is this bad, I'd rather deal with the "disease". :scrutiny:

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