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This Will Make Your Blood Boil!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by ATBackPackin, Mar 19, 2013.

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  1. hogshead

    hogshead Well-Known Member

    Obtw here is the pd
    # Address: 303 Harding Hwy, Carneys Point Township, NJ 08069
    Phone:(856) 299-0070
    here is the contact info for the dss
    NJ Department of Human Services
    Capital Place One
    222 South Warren Street
    P.O. Box 700
    Trenton, NJ 08625-0700
    Give them a call Im sure they would love to hear from us.
  2. Prophet

    Prophet Well-Known Member

    I meant to post this last night after ColionNoir posted it on his FB page. Definitely killed off a few brain cells when I first read it. This is why it pays to know your rights.
  3. hogshead

    hogshead Well-Known Member

    I have an ex wife who works for dss. The whole office thinks that they are above the law. Talking about a nasty divorce. Needless to say I have no affection for the baby grabbers. I'm sure that there is a need for them but feel 80% of the time they cause more problems than they fix.
  4. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Well-Known Member

    We probably should keep in mind that we don't know the details of the anonymous complaint. The fact that they rolled with four officers suggests to me that while one interpretation is that the case workers overreacted, another is that someone really piled on the drama in that complaint.

    Which does not excuse the refusal to provide name and credentials, however. That strikes me as wildly unprofessional.
  5. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Well-Known Member

    I work as a contractor for CPS. The Police going with is standard when requested, but 4? No way.

    Also, legally in many states DYFS are not allowed to be photographed or recorded.

    It is scary. But you have a child die, and CPS is put on the cross. Every other parent suffers.

    The solution many have put forth is to make CPS records public. That way they don't need to make rash decisions to defend themselves from limitless possiblities. You have privacy issues with this, which is the reason it hasn't happened.

    BTW, there are statistics showing child deaths are on the rise, while CPS is involved. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20121113arizona-cps-abuse-deaths-watch-rise.html

    Please see my post above for why this happens. There is a huge problem in the US with the way our Child Welfare system is set up. Don't even get me started on the lack of preventative services leading to increased child removals with this being the only option left to a worker who doesn't want to remove.

    Also, they are not all bad people, many are well educated and can tell that guns dont equal safety risk.
  6. PBR Streetgang

    PBR Streetgang Well-Known Member

    I was born and grew up in NJ. At ten years of age my parents bought me my first shotgun. That gun lived in the closet in my room for many years.

    Almost all the other boys I grew up with had shotguns and we hunted with our fathers until we were old enough to hunt by ourselves at 14.

    Many friendships were strengthened on our days in the field and I remember no accidents.

    Of 20 something boys, none were ever arrested and only one committed suicide after coming back from Viet Nam and was dying from the results of Agent Orange.

    Maybe we should elect more hunters to represent us!!!!!!!
  7. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Well-Known Member

    Please note that the boy is properly holding his rifle so as not to sweep a crowd and that he doesn't have his trigger finger in the trigger guard at the same time.

    Unlike Diane Feinstein in one of her famous pictures, holding an "assault weapon" with her finger on the trigger and sweeping the crowd of her supporters standing next to her.


    Here's a good one...how well do you suppose things would go over if some of us with grown kids, possibly even serving in the military or well into raising their own families, were to post pictures of them when they were about 10 or so holding guns?

    Imagine the bad rep the DYFS would get showing up at your door with the police demanding you show them all your firearms or they'll take away your kids who are in their 30's or 40's, serving as police officers, servicemembers, or what-not?

    People could flood the media with DYFS responses by "baiting" them with hundreds of such postings.


    The problem is that any DYFS, DSS, or whatever your particular state agency is known by, will absolutely NOT be held to task for such behavior in any official or public way. The ONLY way this would ever happen would be in a law suit won against them...and the law suits they lose tend to be kept very low key...or avoided entirely.

    They will NOT admit they were wrong EVER.
  8. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Well-Known Member

    From the earliest days of my military service, I was encouraged by immediate superiors in my line of work (who I happen to believe were correct) NEVER to put identifiable photos of myself or any member of my family in the papers or online. Better that way for all kinds of reasons.
  9. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Well-Known Member

    A phrase I've never said: "Gosh, I regret not having a Facebook page."
  10. mastiffhound

    mastiffhound Well-Known Member

    This man did nothing wrong, and the DYFS agent was wrong. Some of them are just as bad as the worthless foster parents I had. I'd rather not, but let me enlighten you on what the Department of Youth and Family Services is like for the children.

    Myself and my brothers had bad parents, addicts to be exact. We were taken by the children services board a few times, the last time was permanent. Want to know the worst part? We were abused worse by our "foster parents" than our real parents. We're talking hospital stays gentlemen, numerous ones. Permanent scars. Things were done to us that would be considered war crimes. Sleep deprivation, beatings with belts, branches, 2x4s, put through walls and worse things none of us will even talk about to this day. All the time that these things happened, amazingly, we wanted to go home to our junky parents who were some how less abusive.

    Later in our young lives we found homes that had great foster parents but not for many years (we were taken when we were 4 and younger). I even put a few ex-foster parents in prison by testifying when I was in my teens. Funny thing, the guy who seemed so huge when I was 8 to 10 years old was scared of me because now I was bigger than him.

    The man I call my father taught me how to shoot. He always introduced me as his son. He treated me with respect. He is my dad. My first day living with him we went out for a walk so he could talk to me and law down the rules. The next day we went out back(living in the country is so nice) and he started teaching me to shoot. Two weeks later I got a copy of the key to gun safe after he was confident with my mental state, safety, and shooting skills. We have so many pics of us shooting, going hunting, reloading, and handling firearms that now days it would be looked on as bad. I wouldn't be the man I am today if it wasn't for him.

    I've done the same with my niece and nephew. This thing about teaching kids to safely handle firearms isn't child abuse or neglect. I know what both of those truly are. I think that it's more like teaching them about respect. That is one lesson that many of the youth of today could stand to learn. The "thought and feeling police" need to butt out. The kids that are taught respect and safety aren't the ones that shoot up schools. It's the kids that have parents that coddle them and submit to these kids every whim and want that do these horrible atrocities.

    This guy did nothing wrong. Just as the man I call Dad did nothing wrong. This makes me sick, the person that called DYFS should be ashamed. I'm sure that some other child in a real abusive or neglectful situation needs help. Screwing with these people is just easier than going into some roach infested apartment filled with needle junkies. Sorry for the long post guys, this kind of stuff just makes me angry.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  11. Twmaster

    Twmaster Well-Known Member

    This. I do not have a FarceBook account. Never will either. Too many busy-bodies with nothing better to do but stick their ugly noses where they don't need to be.
  12. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Well-Known Member

    Social workers are out of control in this country, and the "for the children" stuff has gone way too far. We've had social workers in my jurisdiction attempt to force us to take action against gun owners. Fortunately, social workers have pretty much no authority, and don't tell me how to do my job.

    I once had a social worker request a child "welfare check" because the kid had told a teacher at school that his father kept guns in the house. I was dispatched to this address with a request of finding out if the father actually had guns, and then calling the social worker back with a disposition. Fortunately, before I really got pissy on the radio, my pro-gun sergeant told our dispatcher to explain the 2nd Amendment to the social worker, and stated that we wouldn't be responding.

    In another instance like this I was dispatched to a house on a similar complaint about the kid having unsupervised access to a pellet gun (a 14 or 15 year old, if I recall correctly). We were told that no illegal activity was being reported, and the complaint centered only around the fact that the kid supposedly kept the pellet gun in his room, or so the original complainant told our social worker after she overheard this kid talking to another kid about it at school. That night I wasn't working for someone who was as pro-gun, and we were sent to the call despite our belly-aching about its stupidity. So, I pretty much walked up to the door and told the parent:

    "Hi, I'm officer Coloradokevin. I was sent out here to do a welfare check by a social worker who is concerned because someone told her that your teenager has unsupervised access to a pellet gun. Whether or not you allow that to be the case isn't really any of my concern, just so long as your kid isn't doing anything stupid with the pellet gun. Please be sure your son knows that it is illegal to discharge a pellet gun outside within city limits. Have a nice day". There was a bit more dialogue involved, but that was the basic gist of the conversation. Heck, I've had access to a pellet gun since I was 6 years old!

    The social worker in that case complained on me and my partner because we didn't "search the house". Whatever. I could care less if a teenager has access to a pellet gun, just so long as they're being responsible with it (and we had no reason to believe otherwise).

    Again, social services is out of control these days. I sometimes end up sideways with these folks in the course of doing my job, but I don't report to them. I've had several of them get pushy with me during child abuse investigations, and tell me that they "need" me to place the child in protective custody and write up a report about it (in cases where abuse really wasn't present). Guess what? I certainly have the authority to place a child in protective custody, but unless that social worker is carrying a signed court order to take custody of the kid (as they sometimes do), then I'm going to be the one making that judgment call, not them.

    I mention all of this because I sometimes see younger officers falling into the trap of doing whatever the social worker tells them to do. Some of these guys need to take a step back and remember that just because someone else in a county agency is requesting something, doesn't mean that they have any authority to make it happen.
  13. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Well-Known Member

    Public official in public performing public service, believe the Supreme Court had something to say about that (as in NO RIGHT TO PRIVACY)

    That said, I have had contact with them, got a call on Friday from a supervisor, who had questions (and he was informed I was recording the call)
    the gist was someone reported that my kid was being taken care of (that actually was the complaint, that I let a family friend, who happened to be working hold my son while my wife dealt with something and I dealt with the baby) That the complaint could only be called in by 5 people, involved HIPAA information and the only person who could have called was the state worker, violating HIPAA...

    it got filed in the trash, in these there are rarely good outcomes once you are in the system, many social workers seem to go for the low hanging fruit. If you are contacted by them, know your rights and call an attorney, because the only way you can really beat a children services case is for it never to be started. Sad but true.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  14. Ehtereon11B

    Ehtereon11B internet infantryman

    Read that article off my FB feed this morning. It didn't surprise me at all when I saw it was in New Jersey. That state is a lost cause when it comes to RKBA.
  15. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Well-Known Member

    Wasn't NJ the place where the Neo Nazi kids were removed because they named the boy Adolf and the court found that raising them as Nazi's would be 'harmful' to the kids?
    BTW, except for ideology, NO ABUSE...
  16. statelineblues

    statelineblues Well-Known Member

    Lived in NJ for close to 20 years.

    DYFS (Division of Youth and Family Services) is the 1000 lb gorilla in NJ. Once you are on their radar you will never be left alone.

    Police assistance is almost always requested with welfare checks in NJ.

    The lawyer mentioned in the story, Evan Nappan, is the authority on gun laws in New Jersey. He published a great book regarding NJ Gun Laws.

    The one thing the NJ gov worker bees can't handle is a citizen standing up to them. They expect everyone to roll over and play dead...
  17. TenDriver

    TenDriver Well-Known Member

    I have an uncle who lives in NJ and went to visit him once a year during my teen years. Always enjoyed watching trains on the NEC line and going to the NYC airports to watch the airplanes. These experiences helped form who I am today in more ways than one.

    After the first couple of trips up there I began to notice you couldn't do as much there as I could at home. A walk ON the train tracks usually elicited a visit from a local cop, who invariably had an attitude and wanted to teach me a lesson. It seemed every few miles on the Turnpike I'd see a State Police car. At home I could make the 290 mile drive to my grandparents and see one local police car the entire trip. Occasionally a State Trooper on the 360 mile drive to the beach. No thank you....

    The situation this family in is regrettable and undeserved, but not unexpected in today's morally bankrupt society. This type of response could have happened anywhere. Even here in AL. I had a picture of my son sitting in my lap "driving" the car (back country road near the lake in the middle of the week.) My friend's girlfriend put a picture of it on her Facebook page, and before we had finished the hour long drive home I had two calls from people warning me to get it off the internet and another from my screaming wife wanting to know what I was doing.
  18. BBQJOE

    BBQJOE Well-Known Member

    There is a picture that's been on the net forever. It's a baby duct taped to a wall, along with her stuffed duck.
    I thought it was funny, and posted a print out of it on the wall in my business. (The child is in no danger)
    A woman saw it, and thought it was funny too. She took a picture of the picture and emailed it to her daughter, who she thought would think it's funny.
    The daughter did think it funny, and posted the pic on her FB page.

    The daughter got into an argument with a co-worker about something. The co-worker got pissed, called CPS, and alerted them of the photo saying it was this person's kid, and the investigation started.

    At one point CPS in WA state contacted the authorities in AZ, and they came to my business to see if indeed this is where the whole thing started. Of course they had to take pictures of the picture too.

    I came to find out that it all got worked out, but it wasn't easy for anyone.

    Case in point, be very careful of what you post anywhere on the net. This was all in fun, yet someone had some real nightmares to deal with over it.
  19. c1ogden

    c1ogden Well-Known Member

    I'm disappointed in the actions of the cops. While the one article quotes the victim as saying that the police acted "professionally" they clearly did not. They may have been polite and maybe that's what the victim meant but allowing the DYFS thugs to bully the victims was an absolute failure in the cop's duty to protect the victims. Even allowing the DYFS people to refuse to provide thier identification was a failure on the part of the cops. Whenever I was the escorting officer on these types of calls I always obtained full identification from all of the people I was escorting as well as a breifing on the reason for the "visit" before allowing them to approach the person or residence in question. I have only once seen a state employee refuse to give proper identification to a subject but she did reluctantly produce it when I ordered her to do so and that is what the cops in this incident should have done.
  20. 12many

    12many Well-Known Member

    ColoradoKeviin and C1ogden. I am glad there are police officers like you out there. Police have a tough job and it is just going to get harder as this type of stuff become more common. Seems like not only the people need policing but also some of the government employees.
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