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Title II "Loophole"

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by Hypnogator, May 26, 2011.

  1. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Well-Known Member

    Today while waiting for a connecting flight in the Phoenix airport, I heard the talking heads on CNN blathering about a "Title II Loophole" which supposedly allowed the unwashed masses to purchase "high-powered" weapons. Unfortunately the background noise mostly overrode the audio, so all I could really see was the banner headline. Anyone know what this is all about? :confused:
  2. Bubbles

    Bubbles Well-Known Member

    The claim is that people who use corps or trusts to purchase NFA firearms because the CLEO won't sign off are bypassing the background check associated with a F1/F4 transfer. This is false because NFA transfers to a trust or corp require that the person filling out the 4473 pass NICS before the firearm can be transferred.
  3. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

  4. kingcheese

    kingcheese Well-Known Member

    with legal matters involving firearms, loophole means sure way to get arrested, jailed, and end up on public television
  5. avs11054

    avs11054 Well-Known Member

    I was reading all the comments at the end of the article. Most of the people seem to have their heads on straight. I was suprised to see that for a CNN website.
  6. paramedic70002

    paramedic70002 Well-Known Member

  7. a-sheepdog

    a-sheepdog Well-Known Member

    NFA trusts are by no means a loophole. Anyone listed on the trust is going to have a background check and it will be thorough. This is just another plot by liberal media to aid the gun grabbers.
  8. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Well-Known Member

    Yes those legal MG owners are just going on daily shooting rampages aren't they!
    There's been, what, 2 murders with legal MGs in 77 years? The horror! Why, your odds of getting killed by one of those is almost as high as your odds of dying from a 747 hitting the amtrak train you are riding on...on the 4th of July!
  9. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    I can only remember one, the cop with the Uzi or Mac who shot his wife.

    What's the other? Seems like you are right but I can't remember any others.

    But anyway, I hate the media. Anytime you follow the law now it's a "loophole".

    So today when I go to dinner I am going to drive under the speed limit, thereby taking advantage of the "highway loophole".
  10. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Well-Known Member

    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  11. PTK

    PTK Well-Known Member

    It was a MAC10. That's the only murder I can recall, and was by a LEO against his wife, but he's probably talking about that one self defense case for the other one... the fella with the Ruger AC556, who had to shoot to defend from a gang of sorts.


    I hadn't heard of that. That makes three prominent NFA cases, two murder, one legal self-defense.
  12. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Well-Known Member

    Well there have been a few legal self defense cases (usually NFA dealers defending their business or themselves) but I don't know if you can count those since they weren't crimes. In the Gary Fadden case IIRC it was a customer's AC556 he was testing or demoing when he worked for HK. I think HK picked up the $60k legal bill. Hey, maybe that's why we suck and they hate us! :p
  13. CleverNickname

    CleverNickname Well-Known Member

    A form 1 by a trust or corporation won't have a background check performed on anyone. Neither will an intra-state form 4 where the transferor is a non-SOT and the transferee is a trust or corporation. Also, only the trustee or corporate officer that completes a transfer from an FFL will have a NICS check performed on them, but any other trustees or corporate officers won't have a check performed.

    None of this really bothers me, but they are correct that trust or corporate transfers can bypass a NICS check in certain instances.
  14. pikid89

    pikid89 Well-Known Member

    in Micanopy, Florida, a while back, there was a dealer named harry beckwith that defended his shop with a FA Smith & Wesson SMG of some sort, theres an article about it hanging on the wall of the shop

    FIVETWOSEVEN Well-Known Member

    No one was killed by the owner when he was firing the S&W M76 though, the guy driving the vehicle however was killed by a single round (out of 30) from the owner's AR 15.
  16. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    We have a winner; however, if we didn't have "news" like this we also wouldn't have all of the BS drama "real life" shows I also don't view.
  17. alex4922

    alex4922 Well-Known Member

    There was a gunshop owner in Decatur Georgia in the ? 70s I think that had some gangbangers drive through his shop window in the middle of the night and had the bad judgement of pulling a gun on him. I think I remember him using an M 16. Took down several of them. Good riddance.

  18. PTK

    PTK Well-Known Member

    I seem to recall his primary firearm being a S&W model 76 9x19mm SMG.
  19. dirtymike1

    dirtymike1 Well-Known Member

    I'm sure I'm wrong, but I thought that to be placed on the trust you were subject to a background check, therefore any transfers wouldn't require additional checks for everyone on teh trust, only the purcahsing person.
  20. CleverNickname

    CleverNickname Well-Known Member

    If I wanted to add another member to my LLC I'd just have to notify the Texas Secretary of State. They don't perform any LE functions and so can't perform a background check. Even then, NICS can only be used when a firearm is transferred. Also they have no way of knowing that the LLC is just a vehicle for title II firearm ownership in the first place. iANAL and don't have any experience with trusts but I believe adding a new trustee to a trust is even simpler and just requires updating the trust paperwork and no notification to any governmental entity at all.

    Now if a corporation is an FFL and changes ownership the ATF makes the new owner go through a background check like if it was a new application. But that's different from a non-FFL corporation that owns firearms.

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