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training as a constitutional requirement

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by dogbaloo, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. wishin

    wishin Senior Member

    Nov 20, 2009
    Proper training and learning the handling and use of firearms is always a good dea. Something like a hunter's safety course without a pass/fail test might not be a bad idea if exceptions for former military, LEO's and others who use or have used firearms in their employment would be allowed. Just don't tie it to the Constitution.
  2. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Mentor

    Dec 19, 2006
    Amen brother!
  3. General Geoff

    General Geoff Mentor

    Nov 28, 2006
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    Basic firearms training should be considered as essential to life as basic literacy. It should be taught in public schools. That said, it should not, strictly speaking, be mandatory and proven to be learned before purchasing, owning, or carrying a gun, any more than passing a literacy test should be required before distributing literature.
  4. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

    Jun 5, 2006
    Tacoma, WA
    Training = privilege = something the Government can arbitrarily deny.

    Just look at the CCW laws. I disagree with them and comply with the 'training' to play the game, but I think it's wrong. And the Gov't can, tomorrow, revoke it if the wrong political stars align. While unlikely, it's a possibility that I don't care for.
  5. gatopardo

    gatopardo New Member

    Jun 7, 2010
    Oklahoma city, OK
    We the people

    We the people are not animals! We are certainly endowed with basic rights including the right to pursue happiness, and that one is a bitch because that means a lot of things for a lot of people.

    Along our history we the people had to be taught on how to respect others rights and liberties, we've had to learn why equality is so important at a base level, and why and how to respect life, ours and everyone else's life.

    Why do we have to be taught often about it? because sometimes we forget the everyone has the same rights or think our rights to be more important than theirs, that is why.

    The right to own and carry arms is no different, you and me and everyone has the right to know that the guy next door is a responsible gun owner and a basic 5 hour training as it is required in some states like Oklahoma is the bare minimum.

    Legal implications explained by a lawyer expert in the matter are essential.
    Things one should never attempt to do with a weapon unto other people are included here along with the fact that taking upon us to impart justice will land us in the slammer or get us killed.

    An arms instructor then goes to explain gun safety as in what one should never attempt, like shooting one's foot and such along with basic safety practices.

    The cost is about $60.00, well nothing is free, neither is our guns or the ammo we are going to purchase by the boatloads, after all like someone said in a movie we are not communists, so we have to pay or way.

    That is what it is, is not meant to make anyone happy but safe, and if anyone has anything against it, honestly should move to Mexico where one ca shoot people just because is the popular to do.

    I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that there is a lot of us guys which would have liked to be in the scene of the Arizona shooting or see a legit gun owner put one in the head of that idiot before he got away with hurting so many people.

    If we want to defend our right to carry arms, that has to be our starting point, if there had been a responsible, well trained gun owner, that tragedy could have been averted. At the same time we should demand from state authorities, not the federal government, to carry the necessary checks to make it difficult for some idiot to do this again.

    I'm ready to do what is necessary to protect the second amendment, and provide enough proof to whomever challenges it that I am a responsible citizen, as everyone should, because if there is something to prove that would be the thing IMO.

    A clean record is a good start, to keep felons from purchasing guns is another, including Martha Stewart and Tom Delay:D
  6. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Mentor

    Nov 30, 2008
    Frozen North
    Interesting, I have a great way to solve this,

    A uniform service requirement, every 18yo would go to basic, and receive 007b (soldier, Not otherwise specialized) training

    we could do it like the Swiss do, now if I could only get a FA Sig for my closet and subsidized range time....
  7. esquare

    esquare Member

    Dec 18, 2008
    That pretty much says all we need to know about your post.
  8. sniper5

    sniper5 Active Member

    Jan 16, 2007
    No problem with requiring training AS LONG AS the NRA is put in charge of it. Otherwise, NO!!!

    I doubt that is ever likely to happen.
  9. Davek1977

    Davek1977 Senior Member

    Jan 2, 2008
    I don't agree with the mandatory training requirement, and would hope that, like many college courses, you could "test out" of the training by demonstrating that you are familiar with your firearm and how it works. A class on how to carry a gun seems rather redundant for those of us who grew up doing so.
  10. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    Dec 24, 2002
    Forestburg, Texas
    Look at the educational work done by the Brady and other anti-gun people. Depending on the spin you put on information, it can be bad or good.

    The guy who built all the cabinets in my home has no mandatory or formal training. Beautiful work, BTW.

    I know musicians who have never had a music class.

    My father grew up hunting for the family. He never had a day of training with firearms until he became a cop.

    Like the OP, I have been dismayed by the folks who show up to renew their CHLs and unload the ammo from their guns that they loaded into their guns after qualifying 5 years before that, not having shot their guns, cleaning, lubed, or anything else in 5 years. They shoot, pass the quals, and load up the same defense ammo they unloaded and I am confident it will remain in their guns until they renew in the future.

    So the folks are fairly ignorant about their guns. Their guns do not affect their everyday life. In fact, it seems the only things their guns really affect is one day every 5 years.

    Yeah, a lot of professional who do things that affect our lives have had formal training. In no case is that training constitutionally required.

    Oh and speaking of cops, they have had formal gun training, would you say they are all highly skilled shooters?

    Education may give people some knowledge, but it doesn't necessarily make them smarter.
  11. Kenneth

    Kenneth New Member

    Jan 11, 2011
    North Tonawanda, NY
    Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!


    To say that the right to keep and bear arms exists in the context of a "well regulated militia" is just flat out wrong. The first clause can in no way be construed as a limit to, or a qualification of the second clause. The two clauses are separate, and not dependent on one another.
    In US v Cruikshank (1876) the court found: "The right of bearing arms for a lawful purpose is not a right granted by the constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence." Since the use of the term “shall not be infringed” in the second clause presumes that our right to keep and bear arms pre exists the constitution, our right to keep and bear arms must also pre exist a "well regulated militia".
    The second clause contains the explicit prohibition against infringement. Setting some arbitrary standard of competence not only infringes the rights of those who are able to meet some onerous requirements, it absolutely denies rights to those who fail to meet the requirements. Even the most incompetent boob in the world was born with the unalienable human right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state, and to assemble together with other incompetent boobs for their common defense.

    "Our wrongs we must right if we can through the Ballot Box, and if this fails us, through the Cartridge Box."

    U.S. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story wrote;
  12. Linda

    Linda Member

    Sep 9, 2006
    central Ohio
    Do I "believe" someone should get voluntary training.., absolutely!
    Do I believe it should be mandatory to own a firearm..., ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!
    Mandatory training is a win for the Brady bunch. They would be dancing in the streets over that one.
    "Shall not be infringed..." is pretty clear and that is clearly an infringement upon our god given right to self defense.

    What if we were required to get permission to exercise our First Amendment? Wouldn't go over so well, would it?
  13. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

    Jun 5, 2006
    Tacoma, WA
    The 2A is about rights, NOT obligations. Nowhere else is a right defined by an obligation.
    Why would the 2A be different?

    VERY VERY dark and dangerous to go down the path requiring permission and such to exercise the 2A. In fact, we have danced with the devil on that song and seen the consequences... background checks, which create "loopholes" that must be closed in the eyes of the anti-gunners... States like Illinois which subscribes to "shall not be infringed" ignore it and trample on gun rights wholesale. FOID cards are requred for guns and ammo, mandatory gun locks, blah blah blah... the list is never long enough nor good enough for the anti-gunners...

    Magazine of 9mm are too large. Ban hi-cap mags. Now killers are using 10 round mags of larger .45 cop killer bullets. Ban .45 calibers. Now they are using hunting rifles from afar... ban hunting rifles. Now they use shotguns with buckshot that are hard to track ballistics. Ban shotguns. And on and on and on...

    NEVER give an INCH to the antis because they will take a mile and another mile until we are disarmed.

    NO - the 2A does not require training. Our week governments have succumb to the antis and required checks and training and such for guns and concealed permits. But the tide is turning in many states... :) Keep up the fight!
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011

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