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UPS guy telling me I can ship primers without hazmat charge

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by longdayjake, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. longdayjake

    longdayjake Well-Known Member

    Today I went and shipped a stock via UPS. While I was there I got to talking to the guy taking packages. He was telling me about a bunch of people sending primers and powder out through his depot without paying hazmat. He said they just have to be declared ORMD. Is he mistaken? If I were to ship something through there at his advice could I get in trouble or would it be his fault?
  2. evan price

    evan price Well-Known Member

    Powder and primers are not ORM-D. Your guy is wrong. Finished ammo is ORM-D. A bunch of guys are sending stuff out in violation. To ship with a HazMat tag you need to be a hazmat shipper having taken the classes and gotten certified. All those folks selling primers for $100 a K and Varget for $40 a pound on Gunbroker? Most of em shipped out illegally.
  3. ants

    ants Well-Known Member

    Legal answer:

    There is no law requiring that anyone charge a fee for handling hazardous materials. It is UPS policy to charge the fee. From their rate guide:

  4. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    But there is a requirement to properly certify the shipment. As Evan mentioned, primers are not "otherwise regulated;" they're HM.
  5. sfc_mark

    sfc_mark Well-Known Member

    I suppose it would be technically legal for them to take a loss on the cost of DOT compliance, but it wouldn't make good business sense.
  6. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    According to 49 CFR 172-174, you as a Haz Mat employee (any person who is responsible for handling, packaging, labeling, inspecting, or transporting hazardous materials) need to be trained on:

    General awareness training
    Function-specific training
    Safety training
    Emergency response training
    Security awareness training
    In depth security training
    Any other training required by OSHA, EPA, or other government or international agency

    Once you complete the training, you then submit an application for haz mat shipping with a contract carrier, ie UPS or FedEx. You fill out the one page form, submit training certificates showing you are trained in accordance with the federal laws, and submit a sample record form for all the hazardous materials you will be shipping. They forward this to the security and haz mat division which approves the application. You are then approved to begin shipping hazardous materials with that shipping provider.

    My company is now officially a haz mat certified shipper with FedEx. The training was pretty easy.

    It isn't as simple as walking up to the counter and paying a fee. Primers and powder are NEVER ORM-D. They are always hazardous materials.

    Primers and powder are both Class 1.4 Explosives. Smokeless powder and black powder for small arms can be reclassified as Hazard Class 4.1 Flammable Solid if packed in individual containers not greater than 8lbs and shipping packages no greater than 16lbs using type 4 fiberboard PG type 1 class box.

    Ammunition is a Class 1.4 Explosive but allowed to be reclassed to ORM-D Small Arms Ammunition if packed tightly, primers are protected, and packaging is less than 66lbs.
  7. Slamfire

    Slamfire Well-Known Member

    Ship as much as you can before they bone you for the haz mat fee. Which they will.

    Companies are in the business to maximize their profits. They love it when you have little or no choice. They collude between themselves to reduce the competition, and increase their profits.
  8. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    Great advice. Willfully and knowingly break federal law which carries a $250,000 fine each occurrence for illegally shipping hazardous materials.

    So what happens if you ship primers standard ground without complying and they are set off in transit? You are now personally liable for damage to other packages, vehicle damage, and any injury that occurred, not to mention the DOT will investigate this as it is a hazardous materials shipment. If you want to be childish and play games, please don't do it with hazardous materials. This stuff is not a joke and should not be treated lightly.
  9. azyogi

    azyogi Well-Known Member

    Say I have some new primed brass, or SG hulls no powder no bullets/shot. If I wanted to send them UPS Question is is that ORM-D or HAZMAT
  10. Marlin 45 carbine

    Marlin 45 carbine Well-Known Member

    I have had new, primed brass sent to me many times no haz-mat as well as loaded ammo - doesn't make any sense.
  11. USSR

    USSR Well-Known Member

    Primed brass and loaded ammo does not require a Hazmat fee, simply mark it as ORM-D and ship it.

  12. longdayjake

    longdayjake Well-Known Member

    Okay, so who classified the primers and powder that way? And where do you go to find out the classifications of shippable materials?
  13. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Bulk primers are classed 1.1/mass detonating. Chances of a sympathetic detonation with primed brass is minuscule.
  14. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

  15. delta5

    delta5 Well-Known Member

    That cracks me up. I can order a 100+ lb crate of surplus 7.62x54R ammo, and its ORM-D, but a box of primers or a lb of powder needs an extra $20 fee (for what?)...
  16. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Small arms ammo hazards are fire and possibly light missiles (fragments). Bulk primers hazard is mass detonation (a bomb). Bulk powder hazard is mass fire. Loaded ammo is much safer than bulk components. Single round ignition rarely results in propagation.
  17. helg

    helg Well-Known Member

    If I work for primer making company, I would design and patent a safe package for primers that does not require Hazmat fees.
  18. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Well-Known Member

    Let's not get carried away. Primers are not "a bomb"--that's histrionic nonsense. Nor is smokeless powder particularly dangerous. It's nowhere near as great a fire hazard as the gasoline in the tank of the vehicle carrying it.
  19. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    I left out the word "potential." My apologies to the literalists.

    I spent most of my adult life working with munitions. If you think primers will not mass detonate, dump a carton into a container and touch one off. I suggest you do so with a length of time fuze and an M60 igniter. I have not tested it, but I know people who were paid to do just that.

    Supposedly, the Federal packaging does just that.
  20. atblis

    atblis Well-Known Member

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