S4570, I don't mind keeping it in the armory when I'm not using it. That's probably the safest place for it because I'm in a hotel and I can't take it to work with me. I would just like to have the same off-duty recreational access to it that I would at home station. I think the headache here is because it's a training base and the training command is used to brand-new, straight from basic. They aren't trusting a 36 byear old, 14 year veteran NCO. oh well, live and learn.
USAF anti-2nd amendment?
- Thread starter ctrout
- Start date
- Status
Three days short of a month and they have finally allowed me permission to have access to my pistol again. I'll be returning to my base in two weeks so I'm glad that I'll at least have an opportunity for some recreational opportunity while I'm here. Would have been nice to have had a bit MORE opportunity though.
Nomad101bc
Member
Its because too many enlisteds do stupid things like hide rounds in their boots then load thier M16's and try to kill the first sargents. True story I heard from a reservist. The private that did it needless to say was dishonerably discharged.
Officers go through a far more involved screening process and yes they are supposed to be the upper class.
Officers go through a far more involved screening process and yes they are supposed to be the upper class.
Oh, I get it now. I'm a substandard piece of crap that can't be trusted in spite of my 14 years of distinguished service and extensive background investigation (TS). I feel honored that the upper class would take the time to respond to the post of a surf. Thank you. I'm not worthy.
James T Thomas
Member
regrets
"Ctrout:"
I had been "upper class" ages ago, and at that time we had access to some very nice Hi Standard 22 auto's that were available for only signing out; 82nd Airborne Div. I did borrow those; one for me and one for my friend to go hunting and target shooting. No questions asked. The armorer even cleaned them upon return! Available to any rank.
Now, your situation. It's disgusting, I agree. And if I were king, then...
I too have served under say "Career minded officers" who were condescending and arrogant. I could not stand it either.
I'm surprised however that the USAF would oppress you like that, as I witnessed a more "working" and congenial attitude between the commissioned and enlisted in my experiences with them.
It brings to mind the Pearl Harbour debacle that has all but been forgotten.
There had been warnings prior to the attack, and the military had even been placed on alert for it. Still, the Army commander Gen. W. Short?) as well as the Navy commander had kept the munitions locked up tight; so tight, that the defenders were helpless for too long of a time.
That was long ago, and another situation. Or was it?
It seems that same attitude or similar one is in force in far too many places today.
The unreasoning control over trained, dedicated, experienced, and loyal military, regardless of rank, depicts not a distrust, as it seems, but rather,
a placing of career advancement -record and reputation, above the integrity and dignity of entrusted and responsible men under the command of an undeserving commander.
I served in a combat zone where on rare occasion "fragging" happened, and there was not restriction or disarmament enforced.
When the NCO in Iraq had murdered one of his chain of command in Iraq, again, there was no orders to disarm. Had some of the men in the area been armed, as they should have, this murderer would have been stopped.
It's too bad that all those now serving are not under the command of officers who have had the "experience" of combat and the understanding and appreciation for all ranks that it brings.
Your sacrifice and effort on behalf of our nation are appreciated.
By most, but not all.
"Ctrout:"
I had been "upper class" ages ago, and at that time we had access to some very nice Hi Standard 22 auto's that were available for only signing out; 82nd Airborne Div. I did borrow those; one for me and one for my friend to go hunting and target shooting. No questions asked. The armorer even cleaned them upon return! Available to any rank.
Now, your situation. It's disgusting, I agree. And if I were king, then...
I too have served under say "Career minded officers" who were condescending and arrogant. I could not stand it either.
I'm surprised however that the USAF would oppress you like that, as I witnessed a more "working" and congenial attitude between the commissioned and enlisted in my experiences with them.
It brings to mind the Pearl Harbour debacle that has all but been forgotten.
There had been warnings prior to the attack, and the military had even been placed on alert for it. Still, the Army commander Gen. W. Short?) as well as the Navy commander had kept the munitions locked up tight; so tight, that the defenders were helpless for too long of a time.
That was long ago, and another situation. Or was it?
It seems that same attitude or similar one is in force in far too many places today.
The unreasoning control over trained, dedicated, experienced, and loyal military, regardless of rank, depicts not a distrust, as it seems, but rather,
a placing of career advancement -record and reputation, above the integrity and dignity of entrusted and responsible men under the command of an undeserving commander.
I served in a combat zone where on rare occasion "fragging" happened, and there was not restriction or disarmament enforced.
When the NCO in Iraq had murdered one of his chain of command in Iraq, again, there was no orders to disarm. Had some of the men in the area been armed, as they should have, this murderer would have been stopped.
It's too bad that all those now serving are not under the command of officers who have had the "experience" of combat and the understanding and appreciation for all ranks that it brings.
Your sacrifice and effort on behalf of our nation are appreciated.
By most, but not all.
sandy4570
Member
Technical Sergent Ctrout
I can feel your frustration . My CO refused to sign the provost marshall registration form for my Ruger GP100 on the ground that he did not trust me with the gun and I had too many guns in the armsroom already.
I hope you get your Kimber out from the arms room and spend time at the range-good Kimber should not be left alone with all those M16 and M9 in the arms room .
748
member
When I came back form japan there was no way I was living on base.
"too many guns in the armsroom already" ummmm, yea kind of like that.
I don't even want to think about what their thoughts on smokeless powder and NFA (title 2 & 3) firearms would be.
I think it would be some where between
and 
.
"too many guns in the armsroom already" ummmm, yea kind of like that.
I don't even want to think about what their thoughts on smokeless powder and NFA (title 2 & 3) firearms would be.
I think it would be some where between
and .Sam
Member
legally they cannot prevent you frm withdrawing from teh armory and transporting off the installation.
If you need so more help/info, PM me.
Sam
If you need so more help/info, PM me.
Sam
you aren't wrong to be frustrated. and, this is not all that uncommon. all too often, some soldier/marine/zoomie/swabby does something stupid, and commanders make policy to correct this that screw over everyone else.
we have very restrictive gun laws on most bases put in by military leadership, aside from federal restrictions already in place.
that being said, it's part of what we raised our hands for. we can be frustrated. we can present our case and can ask for waivers or exception to policy...or even ask them to change the policy. but, that's it. we must salute and drive on with whatever their decisions are.
we have very restrictive gun laws on most bases put in by military leadership, aside from federal restrictions already in place.
that being said, it's part of what we raised our hands for. we can be frustrated. we can present our case and can ask for waivers or exception to policy...or even ask them to change the policy. but, that's it. we must salute and drive on with whatever their decisions are.
Clyde Nocar
Member
Usaf
CTROUT: THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!! You have my heart-felt gratitude. I share your frustration & anger.
CTROUT: THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!! You have my heart-felt gratitude. I share your frustration & anger.
daehawc
Member
It's not just enlisted
I understand your frustration but just wanted to let you know it's happening to a lot of us. I'm a Marine 1stLt and had to fight for 7 months for me and my buddy just to be able to check in our weapons. Then we had the same issue about getting half of your chain of command to sign off before you wanted to use it. Hell, I even worked in the Armory for a few months in Quantico and found it easier to leave my 1911 off base in a secure lock box. As far as officers carrying weapons on base as some people have stated. I've have never seen that authorized and I've tried for it at my last 4 commands. The only exception is when on duty but officers and SNCO's alike are issued weapons for that. Good luck and keep fighting. Also if you ever find out how to get a federal carry permit keep me in the loop. I could use one of those!
I understand your frustration but just wanted to let you know it's happening to a lot of us. I'm a Marine 1stLt and had to fight for 7 months for me and my buddy just to be able to check in our weapons. Then we had the same issue about getting half of your chain of command to sign off before you wanted to use it. Hell, I even worked in the Armory for a few months in Quantico and found it easier to leave my 1911 off base in a secure lock box. As far as officers carrying weapons on base as some people have stated. I've have never seen that authorized and I've tried for it at my last 4 commands. The only exception is when on duty but officers and SNCO's alike are issued weapons for that. Good luck and keep fighting. Also if you ever find out how to get a federal carry permit keep me in the loop. I could use one of those!
cpttango30
Member
Shoot my first wife left me and my CO MADE me put my guns in the arms room. The Armour and his chronies nicked scratched and dinged my rifles and pistols into worthlessness. But when I complained they said so what you don't need them anyways. I had some very nice rifles at the time. They came back and were a rusted heap. I had a sweet Ruger m77vt in 220 Swift. The barrle was blue when it went in when I got them out it was rust. They would not let me in to clean them or do anything with them.
The military is so anti-gun it is not funny. At fort dix I was told that if I brought firearms on post I would be arrested but I had to bring them on post to the police station to register them. Go figure.
The military is so anti-gun it is not funny. At fort dix I was told that if I brought firearms on post I would be arrested but I had to bring them on post to the police station to register them. Go figure.
Sorry friend, the military is not a democracy, democratic or in the habit of seeking a consensus or votes before it acts. A service member's rights are different, and as it should be. Although I sympathize with your current situation, I would side with the military as to placing your firearm in the armory until you have finished the course. Off post, I see no problem for a service member carrying a permitted firearm with a CCW. On a military post...no! Firearm goes into armory.
Anyway, I am sure that I will get FLAK over my post. In closing, thank you for your service to our country, and the things that you have given up that so many take for granted.
NRA member. CCW holder (in state of California no less!), C&R lic. 20 years regular Army and Army National Guard, retired E-7. Scouts out.
Anyway, I am sure that I will get FLAK over my post. In closing, thank you for your service to our country, and the things that you have given up that so many take for granted.
NRA member. CCW holder (in state of California no less!), C&R lic. 20 years regular Army and Army National Guard, retired E-7. Scouts out.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
No, but you seem to be naive about such matters. This is partially apparent in your presentation about your long career and recent mission success. Since when would either dictate what rules should or should not be applied to you? They don't. So the issue at hand would be whether or not commander actually has the authority to restrict access to your personal firearm in the manner described. If not, then you have reason to file a complaint. Your commander would not be the first to misapply, misinterpret, or overstep rules.
Agreed. They are just not big on personal rights as are recognized in the civilian sector.
Grizzly Adams
Member
TSgt Ctrout, unless the regs. have changed, you are entitled to check you personal weapons out of the armory at anytime during posted hours when you are off duty and going off base. If your commandant does not come around go see the JAG. This is not AF policy. This is her dictate!
Two solutions: One, I was off to a six week course in Florida and I took an AR-15 and a 1911. No way I was driving 700 miles on 01/01/2000 unarmed. I got there, found a self-storage place two blocks from the base gate, ignored their silly policy about no firearms and rented a storage locker for my two guns and later my electric frying pan that the CBQ staff frowned upon.
2nd, start a campaign to get an MWR(Morale, Welfare, and Rec) range at your post. I am blessed to have access to Camp Allen weapons range in Norfolk, it is on the non-secure side of the base(housing area) and you can come and go freely with guns. I have two lockers that I have the only key for and they are chock full of guns. Never dealt with the stupid post armory, never will.
2nd, start a campaign to get an MWR(Morale, Welfare, and Rec) range at your post. I am blessed to have access to Camp Allen weapons range in Norfolk, it is on the non-secure side of the base(housing area) and you can come and go freely with guns. I have two lockers that I have the only key for and they are chock full of guns. Never dealt with the stupid post armory, never will.
Crash_Test_Dhimmi
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2008
- Messages
- 256
Not That I have EVER done this, but I would have kept it in a locked case, sans ammo, deep inside the bowels of my cars contraband compartment underneath the trunk, underneath all my other crap that I just moved with, and stayed at the Angelo Inn. But that is me, Not that Ive ever done such a horrible thing.
You need to cross over to the Army.
BTW CTROUT, I hear ya... you and I both know why you were at goodfellow, just as any intelligent person can deduce... and from that deduce other things... But its bad opsec to put your clearance level in any internet post.
I remember some idiot with a "TSECRET" license plate on his beemer while I was there, I Face Palmed myself every time I saw it on the street. Opsec people.
You need to cross over to the Army.
BTW CTROUT, I hear ya... you and I both know why you were at goodfellow, just as any intelligent person can deduce... and from that deduce other things... But its bad opsec to put your clearance level in any internet post.
I remember some idiot with a "TSECRET" license plate on his beemer while I was there, I Face Palmed myself every time I saw it on the street. Opsec people.
mek42
Member
I failed MEPS a few years ago and thus have no direct experience with the military. The ideas I have may not be worth following.
First, if following the chain of command does not acheive the desired results, would it be possible to speak with an Inspector General or a JAG personnel? Maybe try phrasing it as, "I didn't think this was how it worked, could you go over the regs with me?"
Maybe find some local gun shops and inquire about the possibility of renting secured storage at their location. If you called in advance, I'm sure some of the owners would be willing to make an appointment for an out-of-hours pick up. Try to find a mom-and-pop store for this as opposed to a large Gander Mountain style establishment.
First, if following the chain of command does not acheive the desired results, would it be possible to speak with an Inspector General or a JAG personnel? Maybe try phrasing it as, "I didn't think this was how it worked, could you go over the regs with me?"
Maybe find some local gun shops and inquire about the possibility of renting secured storage at their location. If you called in advance, I'm sure some of the owners would be willing to make an appointment for an out-of-hours pick up. Try to find a mom-and-pop store for this as opposed to a large Gander Mountain style establishment.
This is very true and a good historical perspective. My Dad, a dentist, and Captain in the Medical/Dental Corp was called on the carpet and lectured by General Mark Clark about fraternzing with enlisted personal. In Germany, in 1946, he went to a movie and sat with some enlisted personal he knew. That was it, he just sat with them in the theater. The enlisted guys cheered when he and my Mom sat with them. It was a lot more of a class thing then than I think today, but my Dad was just a regular guy and being Medical Corp usually got away with more.
To keep this gun related, he had to carry a 1911A1 as Officer of the Day every few weeks. His only comment to me about it was that it was heavy.
M14/11B
Member
I was enlisted and stationed in
D.C. area. I got married while in and moved off base to an apartment with my bride. We brought my .22 rifle with us when we moved to the apartment from CA. Mentioned it to a buddy at work one day and my CWO4 Boss had a coniption fit. Said I should register it with the Provost Marshall. This was from a combat veteran with tours in nam and korea.
I almost laughed in his face but maintained. Never registered it either. BTW this was an Infantry outfit, Go figure.
D.C. area. I got married while in and moved off base to an apartment with my bride. We brought my .22 rifle with us when we moved to the apartment from CA. Mentioned it to a buddy at work one day and my CWO4 Boss had a coniption fit. Said I should register it with the Provost Marshall. This was from a combat veteran with tours in nam and korea.
I almost laughed in his face but maintained. Never registered it either. BTW this was an Infantry outfit, Go figure.
CHAINGUNMASSACRE
Member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 68
My wife and I vacationed in Ney York City in 2005. At the time, I was still in the reserves, so we stayed CHEAP at Ft. Monmouth,NJ. I was a good soldier, and checked my BHP into the armory, 1st thing upon arriving on base. Being from the midwest, I was totally unprepared for his reaction upon seeing those federal 9bp's in the mag."You can't have those in New Jersey!" he exclaimed. Apparently hollow points are not legal there. Upon re-issuing me my browning he said"Don't get caught with those here!" That's it. I was going to load up with ball, but trying to find handgun ammo in the NYC area, even ball, is like trying to find a river in Kuwait.
We seem to have wandered OT and there's not much that can be done to change any branch of the armed services practices related to personal firearms.
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