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VT may become a success for us

Discussion in 'Legal' started by darkknight, Apr 23, 2007.

  1. darkknight

    darkknight Well-Known Member

    VT may end up changing peoples mind

    I found this on yahoo.com. Maybe this will benifit us as a whole on this debate. I have changed the title its not appearing on the main paige mods please change i will try again. Vt was an awakeing for people and a tragedy that should not be forgotten.

    by Stephanie Griffith
    Sun Apr 22, 3:59 PM ET

    WASHINGTON (AFP) - The powerful US gun lobby, far from being weakened by last week's tragic college campus shooting, actually has emerged stronger, gun advocates said, stepping up calls Sunday for a better-armed US citizenry to prevent future attacks.

    Gun rights advocates said that following last week's massacre, in which 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui fatally shot 32 victims at Virginia Tech University, gun control forces will be hard pressed to make the case for tighter restrictions.

    "This is a huge nail in the coffin of gun control," said Philip Van Cleave, president of the gun rights group Virginia Citizens Defense League.

    "They had gun control on campus and it got all those people killed, because nobody could defend themselves," he told AFP.

    "You want people to be able to defend themselves -- always," he said.

    Van Cleave said the tragedy could give a boost to a years-long effort in Virginia to pass legislation allowing students to carry weapons on campus -- especially since existing laws failed to prevent Cho's murderous rampage.

    "Gun control failed. That student under university rules was not to have a gun," Van Cleave said.

    "Come legislative season, which is in January, we're going to be fighting to get a bill put in again -- the third year in a row now and hopefully this time it will pass -- that would let students that are over 21 with a permit ... carry concealed self-defense," he said.

    The bill, which would also allow any faculty member possessing a concealed carry permit to carry a concealed weapon, has a "greatly enhanced" chance of passage following the Virginia Tech shooting, Van Cleave said.

    The southeastern state where the shootings took place allows anyone 21 years of age or older and holding a concealed handgun permit to carry a weapon.

    That is not true, however of college campuses, where most universities have a strict prohibition against carrying guns -- much to the chagrin of the state's pro-gun activists.

    Other gun rights advocates echo Van Cleave's view that had even one Virginia Tech student or faculty member been armed, last week's carnage might have been prevented.

    "The only person who is responsible to defend you is you -- the police are incapable of defending each and every one of us all the time," said Mike Stollenwerk, 44, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, a Virginia-based gun-rights networking group.

    "Citizens have an inherent right to be able to defend themselves," he said, speaking last week to The Washington Times newspaper.

    "You can't always have a policeman on every street corner to take care of you. Whenever you have a bunch of gun-control laws that prohibit people from carrying, the ones with the guns are the criminals."

    Many had expected that the Virginia Tech rampage would be a rallying cry for gun control activists, but that has not turned out to be the case.

    Even the mass killings at Colorado's Columbine High School in 1999 failed to result in gun-control legislation, despite the emotional outcry over those shootings.

    The reaction has been even more muted following last week's tragedy, the deadliest school shooting in US history.

    US politicians have shown little inclination to introduce new gun control legislation in a country where an estimated 40 percent of US households own a gun and where for many the constitutional right to bear arms is seen as sacred.

    Reports that Cho's past brush with mental health authorities should have prevented him from being able to purchase a firearm is prompting a legislative reaction, however.

    US Senator Chuck Schumer and Representative Carolyn McCarthy (news, bio, voting record) on Sunday announced plans to introduce federal bill requiring states to send critical mental health information to the federal government, which will allow them to screen out those who don't qualify to own firearms.

    US media reported Sunday that a similar proposed bill in California impose mandatory background checks for buyers of handgun ammunition, require a face-to-face purchase instead of by mail, and require gun shops to store ammunition behind counters.

    Schumer said about his bill that federal gun laws are only as the records provided by states.

    "Our legislation, had it been in place last week, may well have stopped last weeks unspeakable tragedy," Schumer said in a statement.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2007
  2. pdowg881

    pdowg881 Well-Known Member

    It's really sad that something like this had to happen to open people's eyes.
  3. romma

    romma Well-Known Member

    It is sad that this has happened... If it does open eyes, instead of heads going deeper in the sand, then that is the most you can hope for after such a tragedy. It sounds like that may the case for more than I thought.
  4. bclark1

    bclark1 member

    I would question the use of the word "success." I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but it's important to choose carefully.
  5. SkiLune

    SkiLune Well-Known Member

    It finally opened my wife's eyes. I kept telling her the stuff that we already know (cops can't be everywhere, 911 is for cops to quickly locate the evidence, cops job description does not cover protecting the folks, and that it would be foolhardy to rely purely on the government to protect us).

    She is now a believer. Not to bash the cops, but two stinking hours between shootings, with tons of cops minutes away, and still 30+ dead. But I must say that some of the video of horrendously out of shape cops blobbing around toting fancy looking rifles with lots of tac stuff hanging off them did not inspire alot of confidence in law enforcement.

    Ultimately, I told her I thought the VT massacre was another example of a massive breakdown of goverrnment infrastructure and compartmentalized responsibility. I thought any finding of a court of mental deficiency must be reported to BATF, and form 4473 question F specifically references this. :banghead:

    Cho's purchase was illegal, but I am hearing that Virginia authorities did not pass this info to BATF. Now everyone from the cops, VT officials, and the state are in full damage control mode. Disgusting.
  6. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Well-Known Member

    It may point out the falacy of gun control, and may give us an opportunity to educate, but I don't see any "success" here. :(
  7. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

    If it results in the abolition of governmentally-approved slaughter pens, then it is a success.

    Sis, everyone mourns the victims of this madmen, but it would be an insult to the dead to allow the antis to continue to maintain their slaughter pen zones.
  8. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Well-Known Member

    VT is a "success" only in the same vein as Pearl Harbor or 9/11 as successes.

    VT may be a wake up call for some and a proof of failed policies in general, but is also an absolute failure and nightmare for all concerned.
  9. WeThePeople

    WeThePeople Well-Known Member

    Please reconsider the use of the word "success." No matter what the legislative outcome, the murder of 32 people is not, by any definition, a success. No matter what laws/guns/psychoses were in play, it is a tragedy.
  10. torpid

    torpid Well-Known Member

    Another one here pointing out the poor choice of word.

    The title could be misused to give the appearance that we somehow could consider the massacre a "success".

    The only "success" that could possibly be said to have occurred there was the for murderer's twisted goals.

    It may be an awakening to some regarding the uselessness of gun-free policies, however.
  11. darkknight

    darkknight Well-Known Member

    I apologize for the use of the word success. The title is changed if you want something diffrent please inform me and i will do my best once again to keep it to everyones liking . pardon the poor word choice and you are right its a tragedy that will hopefully never occur again, i pray for the families of victims as well as the victims.
  12. torpid

    torpid Well-Known Member

    No worries, darkknight.

    It's apparent that you meant "success" in the sense of less restrictions on self-defense against these kinds of massacres, it was just that the title could be misconstrued out of context.
  13. WeThePeople

    WeThePeople Well-Known Member


    I too, am sure that you didn't mean it in a disrespectful way. I am just concerned with how it could be construed by someone who happens to be doing an online search for VT information.

  14. bogie

    bogie Well-Known Member

    People are using common sense while thinking - that's a good thing. We just have to keep it from happening again.
  15. tinygnat219

    tinygnat219 Well-Known Member

    Mods, Please Retitle or close this thread!

    VT wasn't a "success" for either side of the gun issue. PLEASE change the title of this thread or close it down. I find it hard to digest how the events at VT can be viewed as a success for gun rights when there are 32 people dead. This won't convert fence-sitters, or other clear thinking people who are thinking of coming to our side on the gun issue. Please think before you type.

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