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Warranty Issue

Discussion in 'Legal' started by 25cschaefer, May 25, 2012.

  1. 25cschaefer

    25cschaefer Well-Known Member

    My brother bought a Ben Franklin Armory AR15 a few months ago and loved it. After a couple hundred rounds it started fireing one shot when you pull the trigger and one shot when you release, like the Mini 14 staple mod. He sent it back to the factory to have it fixed under warranty but they called him and told him that since he installed a sling mount, the gun was no longer covered under warranty-anything more than field stripping apparently voids the warranty. They then said that since the gun was "unsafe" they could not send it back. No fix, no gun, no money.

    That seems plain wrong to me, robbery.

    If your brand new Ford gets a flat on the way out of the lot and you take it back, the tire isn't covered under warranty, the dealership can't keep your car because it is unsafe.

    Has anybody ever heard of this?

    What options are there besides hiring a lawyer (more expensive than the gun) or driving to California and having a "talk" (gas is expensive and the lawyer thing, once again).
  2. foghornl

    foghornl Well-Known Member

    Robbery is too kind of a word for this, but what description fits is well... lower than a snake's belly in the ditch beside the "Low Road"

    Call to the California Attorney General, perhaps the US Attorney AND the ATF is in order.
  3. psyopspec

    psyopspec Well-Known Member

    Many attorneys will consult for free, and having a cease and desist letter sent might be cheaper than you think. You can also send your own official-looking letter to the same end via certified mail - might get someone's attention.

    Sorry to hear about your brother's situation, and I hope he can resolve it.
  4. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Well-Known Member

    If the facts are exactly as stated (I'm just sayin' a lot of folk leave things out) and even if by the strictest letter of the warranty it is "out of warranty" this should not only not be tolerated but addressed aggressively.

    The fact that time, energy and possibly money may be required to get this company to "stand up" means to me that BF (interesting initials...) needs to go beyond making it right and doing a little CYA on the part of your brother.

    At this point, I'd give one other person at the company - other than the individual responsible for the "suck it" response - the opportunity to backpedal with a "musta been a misunderstanding..." apology and compensation.

    Now, all that ranting outa the way, the hammer is most likely being withheld by the disconnector as designed yet is being allowed to travel unobstructed to strike the firing pin upon the disconnector's release. If this is the case and in fact your brother did nothing more than address a sling adaptor - these folks are way outa line regardless of hiding behind a warranty
  5. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Well-Known Member

    Call the BBB and file a complaint. Call your state consumer protection office. Tell BFA that all this needs is a FCG repair, a new disco should fix it.

    If you have any local gun forums post this info so others don't get screwed by BFA.
  6. 25cschaefer

    25cschaefer Well-Known Member

    Thanks guys, somebody higher up in the company is suppose to be calling my brother on Monday/Tuesday and I have given him (my brother) some talking points. I will keep you updated.
  7. DNS

    DNS Well-Known Member

    Might want to add that one of the biggest rifle forums on the net is watching this to see how they handle it.

    Ben Franklin Armory is on my don't buy list now.
  8. danez71

    danez71 Well-Known Member

    Wouldnt this be covered by the magnuson-moss warranty act?!
  9. Rmeju

    Rmeju Well-Known Member

    The options for you, that I can think of in descending order of desirability are:

    1. Get things straightened out with the higher ups on your own. This will be BY FAR, the cheapest, fastest, and most effective. However, if the facts are as you stated, and things don't get fixed, you MUST move down the list.

    2. You can call your state (or that state's) attorney general and make a complaint. Double check your facts with your brother before you do that. I'm not implying anything about this, just a precaution. BBB is ok, but not stellar. You could try that first or at the same time.

    3. Contact an attorney and ask what you can do. Please remember that if this behavior is the norm for this company, then this probably won't be the first time they've been threatened with legal action. That very well might mean that they're going to make you actually follow through with legal action, rather than buckling if you send them a letter, even from an attorney. That can get expensive in a hurry. How much was the rifle worth?

    3A. An interesting option is that you could probably file in small claims court. It will cost some money, but you can probably recover it. Make sure to send notice to the company's proper address by certified mail and keep your paperwork from doing that. Bring it to court. You can assert "personal jurisdiction" over the company by virtue of its making the sale in your state. If they're in the same state, all the better. When they don't show up, (or if they do show up, whatever) you should win (assuming you bring all your documentation showing what happened... bring whatever you have). Be prepared to explain yourself to the SCC judge whether or not they show up.

    Assuming you "win," you can ask the judge to award you your filing fees in addition to the value of the rifle. Once you have your judgement, call their local county sheriff and ask about how to file for and "levy" a "writ of execution" on the company HQ. Be prepared to furnish the paperwork the court gave you awarding your judgment. Assuming the local SD is cooperative/isn't super busy, that means they'll send a couple of deputies down there, take stuff until your judgment is satisfied (hopefully cash), and sell it until they've got cash. When they get that, they'll send it to you.

    It'd be a pain in the ass, but it's a low cost/high effort way to recover. You could also hire a local attorney to at least give you the basics of going to SCC. Don't forget to ask about how to actually collect if you win. Don't do either 3 or 3A until all other options are exhausted.
  10. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    Wouldn't the company be willing to repair the rifle at your expense? Most gun makers will do repairs on their products when out of warranty, but charge for the work.

    If so, your brother would have to pay to have the rifle repaired. Once he gets it back he can decide if it's worth pursuing on a breach of warranty theory a claim for the cost of the repair and shipping. He might be able to pursue such a claim in small claims court.
  11. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    This just doesn't seem completely correct either.

    I know there is a liability problem when a firearms manufacturer releases a firearm in an unsafe condition...and it isn't uncommon for them to refuse to release it once they discover it is unsafe. Usually there is an offer to make repairs to make the gun safe... at the owner's expense
  12. gremlinx

    gremlinx Member

    There are many companys that use the you did this one unrelated thing so we will not take care of this other thing. I would keep away from any of these companys. There are too many companys who will go over the top to take care of their customers. I have been reading some posts about Kahr not warrantying their guns because of Reloads being shot. Some others are said to do the same. I can see a company not fixing a problem with ammo of any kind that was over powered and damages a gun. From what I have read Glock Smith Ruger Springfield and others even though they dont recomend reloads will take care of an unrelated problem. I am looking for a CCW gun right now and the Glock seems to be one that stands out. I am just worried about the thickness of the 26.
  13. HankB

    HankB Well-Known Member

    No AR15 sling mount I've ever seen will render a rifle "unsafe" . . . care to elaborate? Did this one involve drilling holes in the receiver or something of the sort? :confused:


    I would first try to sort things out with a "higher up" at the company, but if unsuccessful, I'd be doing some serious research into the possibility of filing a criminal complaint.
  14. Taurus 617 CCW

    Taurus 617 CCW Well-Known Member

    It sounds to me like it was a receiver end plate sing mount that was installed and requires the buffer tube to be removed in order to install it. Some companies (including the one I worked for) would install it free if the lower was sent in which would maintain the warranty or it would be recommended that it be sent to a local dealer for installation.

    B.F. armory refusing to ship the rifle back but not offering any solutions is bull huckey. They should at least offer to fix it for a charge. My suspicion is that they found a problem with their trigger components or the pin hole location on the lower and didn't want to admit they were at fault. I would recommend getting on the horn with the highest person on the totem pole you can and ask them if they plan on being in business in five years. Then explain the situation. If they don't budge, try to go above them. If they are at the top, give them a piece of your mind. I hate to admit it but irate customers get taken care of rather quickly, especially those that work in the media industry. Keep bugging them until it gets resolved! Good luck.
  15. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    The biggest problem is that now the gun is an NFA Title 2 Machine Gun. It fires more than one round with one pull of the trigger.
  16. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Well-Known Member

    Unless things have changed since the last time I testified in Federal court as a defense witness on an issue such as this, that is absolutely incorrect if the condition of function is directly related to a malfunction.

    However, if it is allowed to remain in this state with the ability to fire more than one round with a single application of the trigger and used as such with the full knowledge of the owner/possessor - well, that's a whole different color of horses in a fish kettle.

    Right now, today, and as I said, if the circumstances are exactly as described in the OP - simply disassembling the firearm or only removal of the trigger group will suffice.
  17. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    That is a pretty universal condition which would void at least part if not all of your warranty. There is very little about the operation of a semi-auto pistol which would not be affected by using incorrectly manufactured ammunition...and if it isn't controlled through a documented manufacturing process, how can anyone be sure of it's affect on the other parts.

    The Kahr and the Glock are two ends of the scale in concealability...one is slim, one is blocky...depends on your preference
  18. highlander 5

    highlander 5 Well-Known Member

    I'd stick with the attorney/small claims court idea. The BBB has no legal abilties to help you other than a non binding arbitrator.
  19. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Well-Known Member

    ... and small claims court has no authority to collect your judgement.

    But another thing ... I don't think I'd be talking "out of school" if I were to suggest that if this happened to YOUR gun from this manufacturer, that it hasn't happened to others as well (or will). Giving a lawyer a sniff of a class action suit is like chumming the waters.
  20. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    No court will collect your judgment for you. That'll be up to you.

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