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what's the real problem guns or drug crime?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by steelerdude99, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. steelerdude99

    steelerdude99 Well-Known Member

    The article is titled: Detroit reports highest homicide rate in 20 years. It's a truly sad piece of work. See link below:


    "America has a problem with guns, but the epicenter seems to be here in Detroit," Interim Detroit Police Chief Chester Logan said at a news conference Thursday, as city officials reported 386 criminal homicides in 2012, the highest since 1992.

    But later on ... "At least two-thirds of the homicides in Detroit are related to drug sales, disputes between people selling drugs or disputes between people owing people money about drugs," said David Martin, director of the Urban Safety Program at Wayne State University in Detroit.

    So... what's the real problem ... guns or drug crime? :banghead: Drugs are already illegal.

  2. guitarguy314

    guitarguy314 Well-Known Member

    If drugs were legal and sold legally by established businesses, our jails would be a lot emptier, and there would be less violence. IMO of course
  3. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

    Hey, you'd be taking away jobs from the prison system! How else are they going to stuff their prisons once you take out drug offenders? We'd no longer be #1 in the world for prison population, and America is always #1!

    PCCUSNRET Well-Known Member

    And I'm sure that most of these drug users and dealers purchased their guns legally and went through the hassle of obtaining carry permits. What a joke! If they would just enforce current laws and lock up the criminals they wouldn't have this problem.
  5. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

    Does anyone or any organization actually have credible statistics that further divides the cumulative homicide rates collected by the FBI into true innocent people killed by someone with a gun, and criminals killed by civilians, other criminals, or law enforcement?

    I have a hard time believing the estimated 12,000 people a year who die at the hands of a gun every year are all innocent civilians going about their daily lives.
  6. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

    That is pretty funny. I get your meaning though.


  7. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

    Excellent Sam Cade, I thought I recalled seeing the numbers broken down more but I couldn't Google-fu where. Table 11 seems most useful to us since it shows murder circumstances, including the weapon-type used.

    I don't exactly understand the rape category. Without being graphic, I assume it means the weapon that was used to carry out the act of rape, which resulted in death. It appears the majority of firearm homicides were due to "other arguments" and "unknown". It also doesn't specify if the victim was a criminal, which I suspect makes up a number of the robbery, burglary, narcotics, gangland and juvenile gang homicides that weren't cleared as justifiable homicide by law enforcement or civilians. Even the "argument over money" or "other argument" could easily qualify.

    I'm surprised there were only 87 homicides from love triangles. I'd figure angry spouses catching their partner with their pants down would result in many more fatalities.
  8. almherdfan

    almherdfan Well-Known Member

    Prohibition does not work--in fact it is counter-productive (in a free market economy/strong civil liberties govt). America should know this. Our leaders should know this.

    We know an AWB will fail. We know that because of experience and statistics. Rifles, including so-called assault weapons aren't the tool used in 97% (or more) in the murders committed in the USA. If magnifying glasses caused 3% of fires, and matches caused 50%, would they ban magnifying glasses?

    Emotions will overcome common sense, leading good, rational, citizens astray. Understandably, our citizens & leaders anguish over the murder of very young children in their classrooms. We don't consider the thousands of young Americans killed as a by-product of the drug wars (not to mentioned the horrors of Mexico). We also forget that many of the murder victims in the USA know their killer.

    I hope (but don't expect) that our leaders look at violent crime with their emotions in check and their minds keen for the truth.
  9. 9mmforMe

    9mmforMe Well-Known Member

    We could legalize drugs..or at least decriminalize them. Putting someone in jail for substances that are less harmful (marijuana especially) than the most lethal legal killing substance (alcohol) is truly insane!!
  10. TAKtical

    TAKtical Well-Known Member

    How about drunk driving?
  11. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Well-Known Member

    The only way to reduce gun violence in the United States is to stop the prohibition of drugs like pot and cocaine. Our drug wars and gang turf wars account for the majority of our gun related deaths. We have young black men murdering each other everyday in our large urban cities over drug traffic but that doesn't seem to make the news or create a hue and cry like these mass shootings that account for .02% of shooting deaths in the United States.

    We need to end our prohibition on drugs. This could and should happen. It would dramatically lower inner city violence that costs so many lives each year - it's the biggest reason our gun deaths numbers are higher than anyone else's. Additionally, the taxes earned from pot sales would help with a multitude of problems.

    Legalized drugs would cut the rug out from under the drug cartels, which would help lower drug related violence amongst our border states with Mexico.
  12. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Well-Known Member

    And once again we stop shoty of naming the real problem. People. Human nature. The deisre to get one over on the other guy, to get ahead or think you can get away with something you know to be prohibited. Take away drugs and it will be something else.

    I'm in no way coming out in favor of drug use (although pragmatism and our broken system makes the argument somewhat appealing) but drugs are no more to blame than guns or video games.

    The real problem is human nature. Unfortunately, seven thousand years of human government has yet to find an effective means of regulating it.
  13. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

    An injury was inflicted with a firearm that resulted in death while the crime of rape was being perpetrated or as a consequence of the crime.

    Raped then shot or someone was killed with a firearm in order to facilitate the rape of a third party.
  14. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Well-Known Member

    Obviously, but we can learn from our mistakes in the past, or you would have to hope so. :uhoh:

    Prohibition was a colossal failure that begat us organized crime and violence on an unprecedented level. The after affects are still with us. Our prohibition of drugs has created the same problem on an even greater scale.

    If anybody wants to make a dent in gang/drug/gun violence in this country - your best bet is the legalization of marijuana.
  15. JohnBT

    JohnBT Well-Known Member

    "two-thirds of the homicides in Detroit are related to drug sales"

    Jobs are scarce from what I've been told.

    A couple of years ago a young guy in a Tigers cap appeared behind the register at the neighborhood 7-11. He's still there, friendly, efficient and a nice guy.

    He moved to Richmond from Detroit to work full-time at a 7-11. And party some. ;)
  16. carlrodd

    carlrodd Well-Known Member

    1911 guy hit close to the mark. you can only react to human nature. you can' t, and shouldn't try to control it. and legalizing any drug will not affect violent crime statistics. most property crime for example, is a product of addicts stealing to feed addiction. alcohol is legal and is still probably the number one factor in domestic disputes. the answer is to respond to people' s behavior, and stop pretending that most people can be rehabilitated. build more prisons, and keep people in them for longer.
  17. HDCamel

    HDCamel Well-Known Member

    You want to know the problem?
    There really is no problem.

    Violent crime is down 50% and homicide is down 54% from what it was 20 years ago.
    Despite gun ownership being at all time highs, despite being in an economic recession for half a decade, despite an education system that's on its last legs, despite the so-called "culture of violence", and despite kids growing up in the MTV Generation with two working parents and minimal religious influence.

    You want to stop the little bit that's left faster than it's already going down?
    Improve education, after school/mentoring programs, and child services.
  18. Recon Ron

    Recon Ron Active Member

    Think about this...

    When has prohibition ever worked?
  19. almherdfan

    almherdfan Well-Known Member

    Mmm, I'd argue that there is a problem (12K murders), but there may be no "good" solutions.
  20. wrs840

    wrs840 Well-Known Member

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