qajaq59
Member
I can assure you of one things. No hog that I have ever shot around here has complained, or even commented on, which press I used to load the bullet. Kinda makes ya wonder if it matters much? 
Where does favoring superior products end and snobbery begin?
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GMFWoodchuck
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I used to live in the same town as a few actors. James Earl Jones being one of them. He was a regular sighting in town. So much so, no one even cared that he was there. (Not in a mean spiteful way, but as in no difference to any other neighbor. We said hi and bye to him like anyone else) He drove this old beat up jeep pick up truck that a typical high school kid would be ashamed of. But everyday, or however often, he would go to the local grocery store get the paper, food, and whatever else he wanted with it.
It's like what the others said. If you take an interest, you going to want the "best of the best" But if you're just looking to reload good ammo to shoot, what difference does it make. A one inch group made off of a Dillion/Redding is no better than a one inch group off of a Classic Lee Loader.
The difference lies in whether you're a reloader to shoot or a reloader to be a reloader.
It's like what the others said. If you take an interest, you going to want the "best of the best" But if you're just looking to reload good ammo to shoot, what difference does it make. A one inch group made off of a Dillion/Redding is no better than a one inch group off of a Classic Lee Loader.
The difference lies in whether you're a reloader to shoot or a reloader to be a reloader.
SSN Vet
Member
I suspect that the overwhelming majority of negative comments about Lee presses relate to their Aluminum frame machines. Their cast presses get very good reviews.
The Classic Cast Turret (make sure you get the cast one) is a great press and will keep you occupied for years. Total cost to set up an add'l caliber with it's own dedicated turret runs me ~ $35-45. Setting up individula turrets with the dies adjusted and ready to go is so incredibly easy and cost you a whopping add'l $9.
Almost all my gear is Lee and though I'm only 4 years into this madness, I'm still finding my Classic Cast Turret press meets all of my needs and gives me the option of semi-progressive or single stage loading.
I think the price/performance/value equation for Lee's Classic Cast is very, very good.
I load..
Rifle
.30-30
7mm-08
.223 Rem
7.62x39
Handgun
.45 acp
9mm Luger
.38 spl
.357 mag
IMHO, poeple should buy equipment that meets their needs...
some are bench rest competitors that want the absolute best that money can buy...
some don't need that
and many need their egos stoked
The Classic Cast Turret (make sure you get the cast one) is a great press and will keep you occupied for years. Total cost to set up an add'l caliber with it's own dedicated turret runs me ~ $35-45. Setting up individula turrets with the dies adjusted and ready to go is so incredibly easy and cost you a whopping add'l $9.
Almost all my gear is Lee and though I'm only 4 years into this madness, I'm still finding my Classic Cast Turret press meets all of my needs and gives me the option of semi-progressive or single stage loading.
I think the price/performance/value equation for Lee's Classic Cast is very, very good.
I load..
Rifle
.30-30
7mm-08
.223 Rem
7.62x39
Handgun
.45 acp
9mm Luger
.38 spl
.357 mag
IMHO, poeple should buy equipment that meets their needs...
some are bench rest competitors that want the absolute best that money can buy...
some don't need that
and many need their egos stoked
JimKirk
Member
Egos come in all flavors, Cheap to Expensive and Everything in between!
We all have them!
Jimmy K
We all have them!
Jimmy K
Blackrock
Member
I just got some Redding bench rest dies in a trade and boy do they work slick. Now I want to get the Neck Sizing dies for all my rifle calibers. I run just about all LEE stuff with good results but need an upgrade in my necksizing operation. The LEE neck sizer works fine but the Redding is easier and with bushing changes neck tension is easier to control.
All company's make good and bad products thats life. Everyone has an opinion. Ask your friend to show you why this is better than that. Then you can make up your own mind and decide if your friend is bias, bragging or bullshi**ing. Talk is cheap when you are trying to spend someone elses money.
mcdonl
Member
I got my ego at the dollar store.
GMFWoodchuck
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Talk is cheap when you are trying to spend someone elses money. ~ b78-22250
True enough.
True enough.
JimKirk
Member
Daddy gave me mine!
Jimmy K
Jimmy K
mallc
Member
Not true, I have done so. I used to use a LEE Anniversary Special with Redding comparator gauges. I switched to a RCBS aluminum Reloader Special and repeatability of measurement went way up. Now I use the LEE for manual trim dies - it performs well in it current assignment. Later I switched to a cast iron RCBS Rock Chucker for the comparator gauges but that change did not produce a significant gain in repeatability over the aluminum Reloader Special.
Truth is that I don't shoot nearly as consistently as I produce ammo.
Scott
I can state this for fact. I have owned the lee case trimmer and stud. The hornady trimmer and the redding trimmer. I now own the wilson trimmer,sinclair base and starrett micrometer. This is how they worked out for me.
The cost of the hornady trimmer was about 55 dollars. The redding I think went about 65 dollars. The lee about 13 dollars. And the wilson twice as much as or more than the redding.
The results for me were the cheep lee stud cutter and the hornady were pretty close.
Don't shoot me for this statement but it is true. The redding was the worst of the lot and one of the most expensive. Now If you can find something better than my wilson setup I will be all ears. A lot depends on the person using the tool If you are the neil anderthal type then the lighter material tools are not for you. On the other hand someone with a light hand and good feel can get the same performance and life out of the lighter tools. I use the lee auto hand primer and it works just fine,but it lacks the feel of my sinclair priming tool both do the job. One costs more and I can tell the difference. If I want volume I use Lee if I want precision I use sinclair.Use the best tool you can afford but more important always use the right tool for the job.
The cost of the hornady trimmer was about 55 dollars. The redding I think went about 65 dollars. The lee about 13 dollars. And the wilson twice as much as or more than the redding.
The results for me were the cheep lee stud cutter and the hornady were pretty close.
Don't shoot me for this statement but it is true. The redding was the worst of the lot and one of the most expensive. Now If you can find something better than my wilson setup I will be all ears. A lot depends on the person using the tool If you are the neil anderthal type then the lighter material tools are not for you. On the other hand someone with a light hand and good feel can get the same performance and life out of the lighter tools. I use the lee auto hand primer and it works just fine,but it lacks the feel of my sinclair priming tool both do the job. One costs more and I can tell the difference. If I want volume I use Lee if I want precision I use sinclair.Use the best tool you can afford but more important always use the right tool for the job.
BigJakeJ1s
Member
The Wilson trimmer is just as accurate without all those bells and whistles, and a lot less expensive. The trimmer goes for <$40, and the shell holders for ~$8 or less.
At that price, it is both the best and close to the cheapest trimmer available, especially of those that offer adjustment in trim length.
Andy
At that price, it is both the best and close to the cheapest trimmer available, especially of those that offer adjustment in trim length.
Andy
LiveLife
Member
I do have to say kind words about the RCBS Reloader Special 5 single stage. Sizing even bulged "Glocked" case is effortless and very smooth. The C&H Champion 205 single stage is industrial. I feel like I am squashing soft peas when I size cases on it.
Although I am a fan of Lee products, I will admit that there are better products out there. However, with that being said, I will also say Lee products are certainly more than "adequate" for doing the job they were designed to perform.
We had many similar discussions like this in past years at ranges/matches and they could not believe I was loading my match loads on Pro 1000 (most were loading on Dillon). Often, side by side comparisons gave smaller shot groups out of Pro 1000 reloads using their match guns. They questioned why this was the case. I told them accuracy is all about consistent bullet weight, case measurements, ignition and powder charge. As long as you can accomplish this regardless of the equipment you use, you will get accurate reloads.
On occasion, some unbelieving reloaders/shooters who use other make progressive presses came to try my Pro 1000 with pre-sized/hand primed cases and their comments were often, "I did not know Pro 1000 could be this smooth and precisely functional." I told them it was a matter of proper cleaning and lubrication before each session. I often do not have to adjust my shell plate timing for 5000-10000 rounds - I check it before each session nonetheless. We tested powder charge measures, OAL, and final case dimensions. I would go over to their houses and do the same. What we found is that while the Pro 1000/Auto Disk powder charges were very consistent (less than 0.1 grain variance), their charges varied over time (Many Dillon reloaders will often check the powder charge every 50-100 rounds).
I do not consider Pro 1000 to be the best progressive press out there. I am very quick to point out to those interested in Pro 1000 that I do not like the primer feed feature and hand prime separately (for more than just this reason). I also point out that sizing on a single stage does a better job and recommend that they buy a used single stage.
FWIW, the new reloaders I have helped set up their Pro 1000 with single stage press have not experienced the "horror stories" often mentioned on various THR thread. They clean, lube and adjust as I recommend and my results are repeatable. YMMV
OP:
So, is this Lee snobbery?
My aluminum Partner press is still going strong. (If I was sizing lots of big rifle calibers, I would get a stronger press) Back when I got it the kit included everything (even 100 Speer bullets) and was $99. Cheap crap. I can't believe it all still works....
StretchNM
Member
Have you ever been in to a Cabelas where they'll have several presses setup side-by-side? Usually there's a Lee or two in the mix, and if you're lucky there'll be a Lee Classic Cast press. Now, before playing with them, check to see that they're well-mounted and clean. If you're looking for a single-stage press and you're honest and objective, you'll leave with a Lee Classic.
I really do like the lifetime warranties that the other makers sell. And the best part is that they toss in a free press with it! It's really nice of them to do that. If Lee would just triple the prices on their stuff, they'd gain a much larger customer base from the BR shooters. Imagine a Classic Cast for say $289.... even Sinclair would feature them in his catalog! Lee could even one-up the others by saying their press is guaranteed for two lifetimes!
Their little scale, while frighteningly accurate, is truly funny. It'll do in a pinch, though.
Their dies: people have said they're not "finished" as well as other dies. I haven;t noticed that, but then, I wear glasses so I might not see it right away. Others have said their Lee dies rusted, and the other makers don;t. My 6 sets of Lee dies haven't shown any sign of rust, but then, I don;t take them fishing with me. Quality-wise? Whose dies are truly "better"? I suppose if you pay $90 for a Redding Competition bullet seater, it's going to have to be better than a $10 Lee. I mean, it better be, by God!!!
Twice in the last year, at the range, I've talked reloading with people who use OTL equipment (other-than-Lee). In both times, my groups were better than theirs, all variables considered. But now, it never crossed my mind that my groups were better because I use Lee equipment. I'm pretty sure if the best BR competitor in the nation used Lee equipment, he'd still be the best competitor in the nation. He just wouldn;t receive good press because he'd be besmirched as "that Lee guy". Of course, he'd have alot more money for other things....more than his competitors, I mean.
All in all, a guy who uses Lee equipment is just another blue-collar serf..... a humble mud puppy.... a slag.....a wretched creature of obvious ill-repute. He gives up the right to buy from Sinclair and hang with the cool guys. He stands apart, and suffers the mocking and scoffing and snickering. He suffers it gladly though because, after all, his groups are tighter. ((( )))
I really do like the lifetime warranties that the other makers sell. And the best part is that they toss in a free press with it! It's really nice of them to do that. If Lee would just triple the prices on their stuff, they'd gain a much larger customer base from the BR shooters. Imagine a Classic Cast for say $289.... even Sinclair would feature them in his catalog! Lee could even one-up the others by saying their press is guaranteed for two lifetimes!
Their little scale, while frighteningly accurate, is truly funny. It'll do in a pinch, though.
Their dies: people have said they're not "finished" as well as other dies. I haven;t noticed that, but then, I wear glasses so I might not see it right away. Others have said their Lee dies rusted, and the other makers don;t. My 6 sets of Lee dies haven't shown any sign of rust, but then, I don;t take them fishing with me. Quality-wise? Whose dies are truly "better"? I suppose if you pay $90 for a Redding Competition bullet seater, it's going to have to be better than a $10 Lee. I mean, it better be, by God!!!
Twice in the last year, at the range, I've talked reloading with people who use OTL equipment (other-than-Lee). In both times, my groups were better than theirs, all variables considered. But now, it never crossed my mind that my groups were better because I use Lee equipment. I'm pretty sure if the best BR competitor in the nation used Lee equipment, he'd still be the best competitor in the nation. He just wouldn;t receive good press because he'd be besmirched as "that Lee guy". Of course, he'd have alot more money for other things....more than his competitors, I mean.
All in all, a guy who uses Lee equipment is just another blue-collar serf..... a humble mud puppy.... a slag.....a wretched creature of obvious ill-repute. He gives up the right to buy from Sinclair and hang with the cool guys. He stands apart, and suffers the mocking and scoffing and snickering. He suffers it gladly though because, after all, his groups are tighter. (((
)))
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LiveLife
Member
I am usually too busy grinning at my double-tap groups and adding up target points to notice.
Actually, some of them have seen the advantages of the Lee Auto Disk and have retrofitted their OTL (other than Lee) presses with Lee powder through die/expander - Darn it! They are catching up to me fast!!!
Well, this could be the win-win option for some. Press of your choice and more consistent Auto Disk powder dispensing - and you can put a cover over the red hopper
qajaq59
Member
If I buy it and it works the way I want, then it's good. If it doesn't, then it's trash. Regardless whose name is on it. I have very little brand loyalty. And if you ever saw my bench you'd know it.
BigJakeJ1s
Member
Actually, I did just that, and went home with the Forster Co-Ax! Actually, I went home and put the Co-Ax on my Christmas list. My wife bought it for me a few weeks later.
My point is NOT whether the co-ax is better for every user's needs than the LCC, but it is simply that when you get a chance to handle each press, side by side, you can make the best decision for your own needs and preferences, not someone else's.
Andy
StretchNM
Member
You sure can't count the Co-Ax out. It's probably the only one out there that comes close to being worth its price. I probably should have added "....unless there's a CoAx in the mix..."
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