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Why are there not more modern SAO autos?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by John Wayne, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. John Wayne

    John Wayne Well-Known Member

    Given the popularity of the 1911, why are there not more SAO options available?

    I realize the 1911 is a design regarded by many as perfect, but I can't think of any advantage of the 1911 platform that can't be attributed to the crisp single action trigger, slim profile because of single stack magazine, and .45 ACP caliber.

    Why not a single-stack, single-action only pistol with a linkless barrel, no bushings, fixed ejector, external extractor and simpler field-stripping (ala Glock, SIG, etc.)?

    SIG makes the 226 X5, but it's a half-pound heavier than a full-size Gov't Model 1911! There are also a few DA/SA autos that can be carried cocked and locked, but the SA pull has a lot of play out of necessity of the DA feature.
  2. JTQ

    JTQ Well-Known Member

    Good idea.

    I'd just like to have a 1911 that field strips in a "modern" way like a Browning Hi-Power. You know, lock the slide with the thumb safety, pull out slide release, disengage safety and remove slide. Can you imagine how many 1911's could be spared the shame of an "idiot" scratch.
  3. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Well-Known Member

    The SAO version of the SIG P220 fills all these. Why other manufacturers don't produce similar guns, I don't know. My guess is that they feel the existing 1911 design fills this market niche and see no need to produce a new gun.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  4. Quiet

    Quiet Well-Known Member

    CZ also makes SAO versions of the CZ75.
  5. JohnBT

    JohnBT Well-Known Member

    Why so few SAOs? I dunno. Not a clue.

    "SIG makes the 226 X5, but it's a half-pound heavier than a full-size Gov't Model 1911"

    The X-5 Tactical has an alloy frame and only weights 35.5 ounces including the magazine. The 4.5# SAO trigger is a work of art.

    The stainless-framed ones are 47.2 ounces. They're so nice I still might get an L1, but for right now I'm very happy with just the Tac model.

    Last Friday my father suggested I order an X-6 9mm instead of an X-5. We'll see Friday if he wants to go halves on it or something (he's lives in assisted living and gave me all of his guns a couple of years ago, but he's still interested.) Hey, maybe he'll want to buy it. He really liked it that much. After lunch every week we sit at his desk in his room and look at stuff on his laptop. He'll be 88 in January. Maybe the insurance reimbursement for his electric scooter will turn up before Christmas - that $2300 would cover it. :)

    I'm telling you, nearly 3 years of seeing the money go out every month for his care and for my mother's full nursing care for end-stage Alzheimer's has given us a new appreciation of money. Spend some of it while you can enjoy it.

  6. GUNDOC454

    GUNDOC454 Member

    More sa 1911's

    Many company's have thrown their hat into the sa 1911 market like the ones that have been mentioned in the above replys. One of the latest is from smith & wesson but the same problem exists with all these entries...... The 1911 has a commanding market share and the others don't sell enough to warrant the expense to offer a new model that has a few features that some want over the time tested and proven classic of the 1911. Its all about money.......pick from whats out there or wait till some company is willing to spend the time and money getting the exact product that your looking for to market......good luck.
  7. legion3

    legion3 Well-Known Member

    SAO is old school these days, only small units are willing to carry them but most units requiring training of large groups of people prefer a simpler, easy to train on platform.

    Many police forces don't even authorize SAO guns. Some might be fearful of the liability of SAO.

    The world seems to be a polymer, simple to operate, low level of training type place. Seems like most offical people no longer care to do the required training for cocked and locked carry. Most younger shooters, most new soldiers or cops did not really live in the 1911, single action era. Most are used to more modern DA/SA or striker fired weapons.

    The Brits still issue the BHP but most other European forces have moved to more modern designs.

    1911's are popular with some civilian shooters in the US and few other places but are not favored by most military or police units or policy makers.

    Most gunmakers want to have the opportunity to try to land that big government contract, can't do that these days with SAO guns.
  8. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Well-Known Member

    Would people who want those attributes give up the 1911 for this new gun?
  9. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Well-Known Member

    You got it.

    It's kind of like asking why almost all modern bicycles look like bicycles looked around 1900 -- it's because the design is "mature." Not much you can do to improve that design, other than apply modern manufacturing techniques and materials.
  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    That right there is the main reason.

    If there is no police or military market or demand, and there isn't, they cannot justify the expense of doing it for only limited civilian sales.

  11. OcelotZ3

    OcelotZ3 Well-Known Member

    The EAA Witness is SAO...
  12. the_doctor

    the_doctor Active Member

    Most modern bicycles do not resemble bicycles from the year of 1900.


    MICHAEL T Well-Known Member

    seat handel bars ,frame, 2 wheels with tires, pedals, and chain to rear wheel Looks pretty close to me
    Our younger shooters and police have been dumbed down to believe plastic is good, hicap mags good, and DA auto is good . We can only hope they wise up
  14. John Wayne

    John Wayne Well-Known Member

    ...and suspension, brake levers, disc brakes, 21 speeds, clip-in pedals, pneumatic tires, reflectors...

    Polymer gun parts and high-capacity magazines DO have undeniable advantages.

    So as of right now, there's the EAA Witness, CZ75, Sig P220 and P226 that offer single action variants...the fact that most don't know these models exist says something for their popularity, I guess. Still nothing designed from the ground-up as SAO?
  15. browningguy

    browningguy Well-Known Member

    I guess that's the politically correct way of saying many people aren't smart enough to use a safety these days.
  16. Matrix187

    Matrix187 Well-Known Member

    ^ :D I'll have to agree 100%.
  17. atomd

    atomd Well-Known Member

    It takes a shooter to appreciate a nice single action trigger. The majority of people who buy guns aren't really shooters.
  18. Drail

    Drail Well-Known Member

    +1 for atomd. The majority of people who buy guns don't know much about shooting or guns. Once they learn they usually gravitate toward SA autos like the 1911. JohnWayne, what are some "undeniable advantages" of polymer parts and high capacity magazines?
  19. rellascout

    rellascout member

  20. legion3

    legion3 Well-Known Member

    While I'm not John Wayne but I have seen many of his films :D

    Polymer parts = cheaper to make, rust proof, cheaper to have spares on hand, lighter weight and like it or not it is the future. At some point steel and wood will disappear from gunmaking. Almost all major companies have a polymer choice and now even polymer revolvers :eek:

    High Capacity mags= more bullets ;) (only the shooter can decide if thats important)

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