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Why do some Milsurp Firearms Come in with no Surplus Ammo?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Crawfish141, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. Crawfish141

    Crawfish141 Well-Known Member

  2. General Geoff

    General Geoff Well-Known Member

    It's not so much supply that's the problem, it's customs and import laws that vary between firearms and ammo.
  3. Clifford

    Clifford Well-Known Member

    Surplus ammo for the m95 isn't cheap for sure and hard to find. I gave up on surplus ammo for mine and buy Hornaday ammo for it. At $25-$27 for 20 rounds it ain't cheap but it's available online.

    As for the Nagant, I feel your pain mine is a Swiss model chambered in 7.5x22. That's a hard round to find.
  4. Crawfish141

    Crawfish141 Well-Known Member

    I'm especially curios about the Nagant, because I know we can get Russian surplus ammo.
  5. everallm

    everallm Well-Known Member

    You're surprised it's getting harder to find, obscure, no longer manufactured in bulk, limited supply, surplus ammunition ?
  6. fatelk

    fatelk Well-Known Member

    When they first started bringing them in, 15 years ago or so, ammo for the 8x56R was cheap; 10 to 15 cents a round, IIRC. Some folks would buy it by the crate and go through a couple hundred rounds at a time.:what:ouch.
  7. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    The United Nations has in place many restrictions on the export of ammo. Some countries can sell some old arms without any problems but face being cut off from UN money if they sell ammo.
  8. everallm

    everallm Well-Known Member

    Errrrr BS.

    Unless a nation is specifically a named one under a UN or Security Council arms embargo, such as North Korea there are NO binding or enforceable penalties.

    Don't try and make the UN a bogeyman on this it isn't, the ACTUAL possible one you are probably reaching for is ITAR which is purely home grown.

    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  9. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    No, ITAR really doesn't have anything to do with this.

    I never said there were penalties or embargoes, I said that the UN has been known to withhold certain money from countries that export small arms. Some countries don't care, some need the money. Refusal to "voluntarily" participate in the PoA has financial impacts.


    Read the fine print about what the UN considers "illicit trade". Also note that the PoA has pretty significant record keeping and tracking requirements that many countries don't want to fool with for ammo.

    "Disarmament" to the UN means much more than getting rid of nukes and landmines.


    Read up on the South African ammo and ARMSCOR debacle for examples of this. SA put laws in place in accordance with the PoA and ARMSCOR violated them, which was almost impossible not to do given the wording of some of that stuff. Now there is no more SA ammo.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  10. Publius1688

    Publius1688 Well-Known Member

    Have you considered handloading? One of the reasons I'm getting into that part of our hobby is the scarcity and expense of obscure rounds.
  11. everallm

    everallm Well-Known Member

    Still BS, the POA you point to has squat to do with any non existent UN banning on surplus ammunition,

    The POA has not been ratified, accepted, signed off etc for the last 7 plus years and is still going nowhere so I fail to see how it has any effect, in any case.....

    This is a non binding, no penalty, memorandum around a specific goal, to whit the ILLEGAL trafficking of weapons. No enforcement, no fines, NOT applicable to LEGAL importation, in other words, nada.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  12. Avenger

    Avenger Well-Known Member

    Well, the M95 ammo became pretty much obsolete in 1940, and was never produced in huge quantities (by Mosin and Mauser scales, at least) before that. A lot of it was poorly stored and ruined. Some was pulled down and recycled during the war. There was no reason to produce it after WWII, since the rifles that fired it were obsolete.

    Nagant revolver ammo was used up after the war, Mak production had caught up with demand, and since the revolver was obsolete.....It wasn't the easiest ammo to produce either.
  13. Nicodemus38

    Nicodemus38 Well-Known Member

    for a while now certain factions in the political arena have been trying to ban all military grade bullets from civilian purchase and ownership. Hence they have been putting road blocks up on importation and thus civilian purchasing.

    At the same time, certain ammunition has not been made by a government in a long itme. For example 8x56 hasnt been officialy made by a military since the Nazis made in in the 1930s.
  14. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    The UN has a well known and long history of being anti gun.

    Not sure why anyone would argue that, but whatever.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
  15. cchris

    cchris Well-Known Member

    I think that's the answer to the reason the Nagant revolver is so cheap. It's inexpensive enough that just about anyone could afford one, but it seems like it'd be more suited as a gun to show off than a gun to shoot regularly, due to the lack of available ammo.
  16. Hardtarget

    Hardtarget Well-Known Member

    I wonder about this too. Think of the K-31 rifles imported to the U.S. I've read there is plenty of ammo as surplus. I wonder if any of it will ever make it into the U.S. There is no reason to not import this ammo. This rifle just cannot be considered a real assault rifle. Just like several other rifles...their time has passed. They (we) deserve range time. Time is wasting and fun is lost! :fire:

  17. Proinsias

    Proinsias Well-Known Member

    The Nagant shoots .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and .32 H&R Magnum just fine. Not as nice as 7.62x38mmR, but well enough.
  18. DMK

    DMK Well-Known Member

    When you see a surplus gun you like, you look around for ammo. If it is expensive or not available then you skip it. If ammo is cheap, you stock up.

    If you are one of those folks who buys a box or two of ammo, just enough to last a day at the range, and you don't reload, then collecting surplus guns isn't for you. Not if you plan to shoot them for any length of time anyway.

    When the K31s were all over the place, there was a ton of GP-11 around. I was buying a case every month. Glad I did.
  19. Sunray

    Sunray Well-Known Member

    "...The United Nations has in place..." The Third World Debating Club has no mandate, jurisdiction nor authority to put any legislation in place for any member country. Any ammo importation laws are those of a particular country. Has nothing to do with the UN.
    "...The UN has a well known and long history of being anti gun..." As long as the member dictatorships aren't inconvenienced.
    The Austrian M95 is a pre-war rifle. Milsurp ammo hasn't been made since W.W. II.

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