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Why is there an ammo shortage?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by radiotom, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Well-Known Member

    I made my point about price gouging and what context defines it. But I'll be happy to go another round:

    Price gouging is a predatory behavior, not related to sustainable economics as the "law of supply and demand" does. Nominal increases in prices due to changes in supply and demand are, indeed, legitimate and serve their purpose in the overall scheme of economics. Price gouging, as predatory behavior, does not serve that purpose.

    My point has been made several times. Your recent postings do nothing but ridicule that and don't bring anything further to this.

    You either misrepresent my posts, ridicule the circumstances, or are simply looking for an argument.

    Any way you look at it, however, the subject of "price gouging", meant to be a minor tangent on the previous ongoing discussion, has drifted far off of the topic as originally posted, which is "Why is there an ammo shortage?"

    Have a good day.
  2. Warp

    Warp Well-Known Member

    Your "point" seems to be that you believe you get to arbitrarily dictate what constitutes "nominal increases in prices due to changes in supply and demand" and and what constitutes "price gouging".
  3. 243winxb

    243winxb Well-Known Member

    Factories only have so many machines/equipment to produce many different calibers. Not one line for each. When inventory is gone, it may be a few months till they make more. Same with guns. As for "price gouging" who knows what the new retail price will be in this new year. Prices always go up it seems. Watch out for double digit inflation, might happen. :uhoh:
  4. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Well-Known Member

    The free market takes care of gougers - people can choose not to do business with them when the situation stabilizes.

    Folks who either didn't think ahead or didn't have the resources to make preparations will fare accordingly.
  5. GoWolfpack

    GoWolfpack Well-Known Member

    Sorry Chief, but I can't get together with you on this one. No such thing as "gouging", just prices rising in response to demand.

    Two very instructive John Stossel videos regarding what is ordinarily called "price gouging" and how it is actually a good thing for everyone.
    Video 1, old
    Video 2, post Hurricane Sandy

    Taking generators as an example:
    Every day of the week, approximately 364 days per year (closed on Christmas), Lowes and Home Depot compete against each other to sell you a generator at the lowest possible price. From the comfort of your home you can order one from Harbor Freight Tools for as little as $150 and have it shipped to your doorstep. I'll go on record saying there is no one in this country who could not get a generator at what we would all consider fair market price approximately 98% of the time. However, these retailers will be sold out in the few days leading up to and the weeks following a natural disaster. To wait until after losing power following some disaster to decide you need a generator shows poor judgement, and to demand that a generator be available to you at the same price as every other day shows a vastly inflated sense of entitlement that I refuse to support.

    Regarding the current panic and supposed "gouging", the explanation is quite simple: the discussion of impending legislation that would seriously impinge on the second amendment rights of all citizens has created a class of buyers that is now willing to pay considerably more to obtain AR-15s, standard capacity magazines and ammunition than they previously would have. Retailers are responding to this demand and attempting to maintain their stock by raising prices to a point where it would be financially uncomfortable for a person to buy more than they felt they "need."

    Walmart is out of stock after maintaining pre-scare prices. An LGS here has more than doubled their prices, and has plenty in stock. I might not like it, but if I actually needed ammunition, I would buy from the LGS.

    And Chief, watch the videos before you respond. They're worth the time.
  6. mikechandler

    mikechandler Well-Known Member

    The people whining really are getting out of control.

    I listed a bunch of match grade ammo for sale, at this summer's prices, in local pages and people sent me nasty mail saying I was price gouging, I should burn in hell, etc. And they never bothered to look up the ammo in question (federal premium gold medal match 69 gr Sierra Matchking BTHP - super expensive premium grade ammo). I was actually listing it at the price I paid for it new ($29 a box). I figured in the current environment I could at least sell it without taking a loss on it. Is that wrong, or somehow dishonest?


    The people whining about the so-called price gouging truly suck; in my case they were totally clueless, way off base, and it really boiled down to them wanting me to sell expensive ammo at prices they could go plinking with.
  7. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Well-Known Member

    No, THAT is not price gouging. Not in the least. Even if you had marked it up somewhat to account for your personal storage and handling plus marketing efforts, that would not be price gouging.

    Match grade ammo always goes for higher prices and expecting to get it at the same prices as lower grade ammunition is not reasonable.
  8. Warp

    Warp Well-Known Member

    Apparently "price gouging" = asking for the market price
  9. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

    Geez, why do folks think that market forces at work making their hobby more expensive is gouging. If you WILLINGLY pay the asking price, it is called supply and demand.
    Quit whining about high prices and focus your efforts on contacting your elected representatives. Ammo does not fall into the category about gouging
  10. heeler

    heeler Well-Known Member

    Markets and the patient buyer are two different dogs.
    Last week I bought 250 rounds of S&B 380 Auto for $12.79 a box.
    I decided to buy more the next day but alas the other online searchers bought out the existing stock,no doubt with all wack job politico types going on about internet ammo sales blah blah blah.....
    Program two...Head over to GunBroker where everyone lately is carping about gouging etc.
    However today I found a dealer willing to part with 1000 round case of PMC 380 fmj,an ammo that runs great in my LCP's, for a starting bid of $280 and after some other person bidding on it I win the bid for a total of $290.60 which averages to $14.53 a box.
    Oh sure I had to pay $35 for shipping but then again IF I found 1000 rounds of this same ammo in good old Houston Texas for the very same price including the states 8.25% sales tax the differences is roughly a whole....$11.
    Be patient brothers and sisters and shop smartly with your money.
  11. mopar92

    mopar92 Well-Known Member

    There are some deals on gunbroker if you are patient and look at a ton of ads on page 2,3,4 etc. My neighbor found wolf .223 in 1,000 box for $455 shipped. That was Tuesday. Patients is the key...
  12. Warp

    Warp Well-Known Member

    I don't consider steel case Russian .223 at $.455 per round to be a deal. That's around twice what it used to cost, which is basically in line with the market right now.

    Now, the IMI 5.56x45 M193 my dad ordered for $.48 per round, shipped ($552/1,200 + shipping), from Wideners a few days ago...that's what I consider a deal.
  13. Barry the Bear

    Barry the Bear Well-Known Member

    Ive been finding weirder stuff oldies but goodies. Silvertips,Black talons, that nature but thank god no one seems to be buying .44s too much
  14. Pismopal

    Pismopal Well-Known Member

    Just like milk and bread before and after a hurricane. :D
  15. random_gun

    random_gun Well-Known Member

    Just noticed blank is also on backorder at sportsmansguide...
    What's the problem with people buying up all the blank??? ***...
  16. gwsut

    gwsut Member

    My concern isn't why but when do you think stocked ammo will become adbuntant again?
  17. Warp

    Warp Well-Known Member

    Depends, and who knows.

    Maybe in time for the holidays?
  18. Hard question to answer. I've heard that the major calibers will be the first to start showing up. My guess is if you dont have a 2 year supply of ammo you will run out.

    The real worry is there may be fewer LGS around by the time this mess is straightend out. If they have nothing to sell they will go out of business. Many jobs will be lost.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  19. Warp

    Warp Well-Known Member

    I don't think they will have nothing to sell. Manufacturers are still producing. It's just that now the stores are selling everything they can get almost before they get it. This is not a bad thing.

    Sure, they may not have much to sell right now...because they already sold it, which should put them ahead of hte game, no?
  20. Ronin101

    Ronin101 Member

    technically its profiteering.. as gouging is supposed to be things that you can't live without, like air, water, food medical care, etc. But since everybody understands gouging I guess it semantics. I dont have a problem with prices going up somewhat. like 20-30 percent over retail. But 100 pmags/ 139 colt mags at Cheaper than dirt is disgusting to me.

    back to the ammo shortage. People are scared. A tax increase on ammo could double the cost. Inflation is ever increasing. As people have noted. Ammo contnues to go up, even pre-panic. There was talk of banning imported ammunition. What do you think will happen if Wolf, Prvi Partizan, Fiochi, Tula, PMC, etc are all banned from import? ammo shortages for years if not decades. Unless more ammo companies open in the US it would be long term shortages.

    A lot of good having a firearm is if you dont have anything to shoot out of it!

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